Electrical Options for EVSE Install

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andrewknight

New member
Joined
Dec 24, 2013
Messages
4
Location
Atlanta, GA
I just got a 2013 Leaf and I am considering my EVSE options. My first issue is that I only have 120v in the Garage. The trickle charging has been working ok this week but I don't think it is a long term solutions. My commute is 35 miles round trip and I want to take advantage of the 1.3063¢ per kWh rate from Georgia Power between 11-7am so I think I need some more power.

Our electric dryer sits just on the other side of the garage wall and has a 30A/240v line going to it. The dryer plug is probably only 2 feet from where the EVSE would need to go except it is on the other side of the wall! Is there any way to re-purpose this line so that the dryer and the EVSE can share this line? We will never need to use both the dryer and the EVSE at the same time. Can a switch be installed for exclusivity with an additional plug facing outside to the garage? I thought about just running the evseupgrade line inside the house but the garage door would need to be cracked which prevents the alarm from being armed. I have an electrician coming to do an install estimate but I would like to here if anybody has some suggestions.

Andrew
 
andrewknight said:
I just got a 2013 Leaf and I am considering my EVSE options. My first issue is that I only have 120v in the Garage. The trickle charging has been working ok this week but I don't think it is a long term solutions. My commute is 35 miles round trip and I want to take advantage of the 1.3063¢ per kWh rate from Georgia Power between 11-7am so I think I need some more power.

Our electric dryer sits just on the other side of the garage wall and has a 30A/240v line going to it. The dryer plug is probably only 2 feet from where the EVSE would need to go except it is on the other side of the wall! Is there any way to re-purpose this line so that the dryer and the EVSE can share this line? We will never need to use both the dryer and the EVSE at the same time. Can a switch be installed for exclusivity with an additional plug facing outside to the garage? I thought about just running the evseupgrade line inside the house but the garage door would need to be cracked which prevents the alarm from being armed. I have an electrician coming to do an install estimate but I would like to here if anybody has some suggestions.

Andrew
Click to expand...

I am sure you your electrician will tell you that the typical EVSE is rated at 30 amps, thus requiring a 40 amp circuit, which your dryer outlet doesn't meet.

You will therefore have to install a 40 amp line to the garage, unless you opt for a less powerful EVSE, like the EVSE upgrade or one made by Clipper Creek, both of which draw in the 20 Amp range. In this case you could use the dryer circuit, requiring you to manually replace one plug with the other..not the best idea due to the possibility of receiving a shock if you get your fingers on either side of the plug with you to ground.

Either way, you will also need to install a separate ground to the EVSE unit.

Since it sounds like the intended location for the EVSE is close to where power is located, it might be relatively easy to pull a separate 40 amp lead from your main load center to the proposed location of the new unit.

I'm not a licensed electrician, so don't take any of this advice as absolute.
 
If you can find 2 disconnects that are mechanically connected so that if one is on, and the other off, or vice versa, then you can do this, but like the man says, this is moot because you need a 40 amp circuit. Those disconnects aren't cheap, and I think you would be better off just running a new circuit out there, provided your service can support the additional load.
 
greengate said:
I am sure you your electrician will tell you that the typical EVSE is rated at 30 amps, thus requiring a 40 amp circuit, which your dryer outlet doesn't meet.
Click to expand...
Or you can get yourself an EVSE with ability to limit the current like open EVSE which you can set up to 24A - still much faster than trickle charger. I'd ask electrician to put another outlet on the other side of the wall using existing line and put a 24A EVSE on it.
 
Generally 240v circuits are installed dedicated to a single device. Although you could share the circuit.... NEC or local codes frown on shared usage.

Best to wait for the electrician's recommendation.

There are EVSE's that run at lower amps and would be plenty of power with 8hrs of low TOU rates.
Leviton 160 or ClipperCreek LCS25 will run on 30a circuit just fine.
 
How far is it to the breaker panel? If it isn't too far and has some open capacity running a dedicated circuit would be preferable IMO.
 
greengate said:
I am sure you your electrician will tell you that the typical EVSE is rated at 30 amps, thus requiring a 40 amp circuit, which your dryer outlet doesn't meet.
Click to expand...
Ahh I had forgot about that minor detail :). I really don't need the 30A charging so the evseupgrade of ClipperCreek LCS-25P would fit my needs. I just looked at my breaker panel in the basement and it is on the opposite side of the house from the garage. At least the cable run has already been established and I was able to follow the line from the dryer to the breaker panel.
 
Now that I have an EV, I just hate driving the gas guzzler for anything. Run a new line so that you can use the full 30 amp charging capability.

The first time you forget to plug in the car, you will really want that max charge rate.
 
andrewknight said:
Is there any way to re-purpose this line so that the dryer and the EVSE can share this line?
Click to expand...

There is device to do this, called a "load switcher", iirc. So that even though there are 2 receptacles on the circuit, only 1 can be used at a time. Our electrician thought this would be a viable way to solve our installation but our city inspector's office wouldn't sign off on the idea.
 
One thing that bothers me here - why nobody even blinks an eye if you put several outlets on one 110V 15A line, yet everybody say you need dedicated line for EVSE?

If the OP has one 30A 240V line and plugs both dryer and car to it it's up to him to remember not to run them at the same time, because when he does it will blow the fuse. Exactly the same as if he plugs two 15A space heaters to the same 15A line in his living room. WHy so much fuzz about it?
 
Tomasz said:
One thing that bothers me here - why nobody even blinks an eye if you put several outlets on one 110V 15A line, yet everybody say you need dedicated line for EVSE?

If the OP has one 30A 240V line and plugs both dryer and car to it it's up to him to remember not to run them at the same time, because when he does it will blow the fuse. Exactly the same as if he plugs two 15A space heaters to the same 15A line in his living room. WHy so much fuzz about it?
Click to expand...
I agree. Why not just punch a hole on the garage side of the wall next to the dryer plug. Then you can wire in a second receptacle, like an L6-30R for the EVSEUpgrade.com device. Use the car at night and the dryer during the day. I'm not an electrician so take this with a hefty amount of caution.
 
Nubo said:
andrewknight said:
Is there any way to re-purpose this line so that the dryer and the EVSE can share this line?
Click to expand...

There is device to do this, called a "load switcher", iirc. So that even though there are 2 receptacles on the circuit, only 1 can be used at a time. Our electrician thought this would be a viable way to solve our installation but our city inspector's office wouldn't sign off on the idea.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't be surprised if that device cost more than running another circuit.
 
Tomasz said:
One thing that bothers me here - why nobody even blinks an eye if you put several outlets on one 110V 15A line, yet everybody say you need dedicated line for EVSE?

If the OP has one 30A 240V line and plugs both dryer and car to it it's up to him to remember not to run them at the same time, because when he does it will blow the fuse. Exactly the same as if he plugs two 15A space heaters to the same 15A line in his living room. WHy so much fuzz about it?
Click to expand...

Mostly because that's what the eggheads who wrote the national electrical code decided. Over the years I've learned it's very well worth respecting what is written in there. It came out of a lot of research by a lot of very smart people.

I'd speculate that large 240 volt outlets are dedicated is because most appliances plugged in to those outlets are capable of drawing near the maximum allowed by the circuit, whereas small 115 volt appliances very rarely draw the full capacity of the circuit, and when they do, typically those oulets are called out to be dedicated as well, think washing machine, garbage disposal, 120 volt evse, etc.
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
Nubo said:
andrewknight said:
Is there any way to re-purpose this line so that the dryer and the EVSE can share this line?
Click to expand...
There is device to do this, called a "load switcher", iirc. So that even though there are 2 receptacles on the circuit, only 1 can be used at a time. Our electrician thought this would be a viable way to solve our installation but our city inspector's office wouldn't sign off on the idea.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't be surprised if that device cost more than running another circuit.
Click to expand...
It could be just a DPDT switch rated for 30A at 240v. I saw one recently on a distributor's website for $98. But I don't wonder the city wouldn't approve it, because the electrical code is clear. Besides, do you put the switch in the garage or the laundry room? Either place it's going to be inconvenient half the time. The load switcher might handle that by switching automatically.

Ray
 
I had an electrician come Saturday to look at my install. First thing he said was that putting two devices on a 40a/220 circuit was not up to code and he could not do that. For a new run he gave me an estimate of $525 to install the ClipperCreek HCS-40 on the side of the garage (50ft from the box) or $625 to install at the front of the garage (100ft).

One thing I just discovered tonight is that I have an unused 40amp circuit running to the kitchen for an electric cooktop. It is not being used since we have gas in the kitchen! The circuit terminates under the gas range which is about 15 feet from the garage. Is it possible to extend a circuit like this to the garage?

Andrew
 
Even if it is Ok by code you will not save much. There will also be extra work to reconfigure the connection and pull the wire.
Wire itself is not terribly expensive compared to the labor and expertise in a job well done. Also less chance of issues with a new continuous wire run.
Pay the $500/$600 and get it done right and where you want it.
 
Mine is a question as much as it is a suggestion, but does it meet code to terminate the dryer circuit at a sub-panel and then run two 30a circuits off of the sub-panel to the dryer and garage? Leaving the 30a breaker in the main panel to feed the sub would protect the line and as long as he didn't try to run both at the same time he would never trip the breaker. Depending on how the dryer circuit is currently run it may wind up costing more than running the new line if you are not comfortable doing it yourself.

Also, have you checked the dryer circuit, what gauge wire was used to the dryer. If it is not either 8 or 6ga I would suggest just running the new line and forget any other options.

I was mostly just wondering for future reference.

EDIT: After further thought, any attempted work around is going to cost a close to $200 and still have to worry about the circuit. Like smkettner said, pay the $500/600 and get it done right and be done with it or just use the 120v EVSE and live with it until you can afford or justify the expense.
 
andrewknight said:
I had an electrician come Saturday to look at my install. First thing he said was that putting two devices on a 40a/220 circuit was not up to code and he could not do that. For a new run he gave me an estimate of $525 to install the ClipperCreek HCS-40 on the side of the garage (50ft from the box) or $625 to install at the front of the garage (100ft).

One thing I just discovered tonight is that I have an unused 40amp circuit running to the kitchen for an electric cooktop. It is not being used since we have gas in the kitchen! The circuit terminates under the gas range which is about 15 feet from the garage. Is it possible to extend a circuit like this to the garage?

Andrew
Click to expand...
I've got to say that those quotes are quite reasonable, and I'd be tempted to simply accept one of them. Does that include all required permits and inspections?

As far as re-purposing the electric range circuit from the kitchen, it's technically feasible. However, it's possible that the local electric code requires that circuit to be there. It's also possible that you'd have to do damage to your kitchen to run the wires that you'd rather not have to deal with. Ask your electrician about that.
 

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