Manzanita Micro P3 30A/50A EVSE

Just came across this, famous EV equipment manufacture Manzanita Micro has a 30A/50A EVSE available now:

http://www.manzanitamicro.com/produ...ge.tpl&product_id=113&category_id=41&vmcchk=1



[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoCuirL8M8Y[/youtube]

What happens if someone by mistake crank up the knob all the way? Will it toast my EV? Or there is electrical circuit that will prevent any damage?

gamekid2k said:

What happens if someone by mistake crank up the knob all the way? Will it toast my EV? Or there is electrical circuit that will prevent any damage?

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It only changes the amount that the EVSE is advertising as available. The car won't draw more than it can handle in any case. However, it could cause the car to draw more than the circuit the EVSE is plugged into can supply...which should result in the circuit breaker tripping.

The adjustment knob is there if you need to use the EVSE in a portable application where the circuit capacity is lower then what the car can draw. With a 6.6 KW charger, you can draw nearly 30 amps from the line. If you were plugged into a 20 service, for example, you could dial back the EVSE so that it would tell the charger not to request more then 20 amps from the EVSE. You will not hurt your car by using a EVSE that is able to provide more current then the charger can accept. In that case it will go to it's maximum input and stay there without hurting anything.

Nice design, very much in keeping with Manzanita's design style. Wonder if it's a new circuit design, or if it's perhaps OpenEVSE-based?

This is the bomb
I purchased my CS-60 for my Rav a month ago. Now I wish I had purchased this instead. But it's on my wish list. A portable that can charge my leaf at 6.6 or Rav at 9.6... wow
Bonus points... it's produced 10 miles from my home. Good job Manzanita

Observations/questions:
1) Cable length?
2) Type plug(s) used?
3) Metal control box near receptacle ==> GFCI protected receptacle especially important for safety?
4) UL listed?
5) Easily removable screws for inside control box access for curious children?
6) Adjustable output for when you're really in a hurry!(??)
7) Built-in smoke detector?

I'm not sure if this is that much better than the Versicharge. Am I missing something? It is good to have more options though.

doug401 said:

A portable that can charge my leaf at 6.6 or Rav at 9.6... wow

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Note: Their only available EVSE is 30A, and costs $750. A comparable OpenEVSE will run $550 (unassembled).

I'd expect the 14.4kW version to be a tad more expensive.

MikeD said:

Observations/questions:
1) Cable length?
2) Type plug(s) used?
3) Metal control box near receptacle ==> GFCI protected receptacle especially important for safety?
4) UL listed?
5) Easily removable screws for inside control box access for curious children?
6) Adjustable output for when you're really in a hurry!(??)
7) Built-in smoke detector?

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I don't think RIch UL tests his products because of costs of course, his charges are also not isolated which has always been a point of debate with many EV owners.

1. 25 foot j1772 cable
2. 14-50 on a 5 foot cord
3. GFI is built into the unit as per SAE J1772 spec.
4. All the individual components are UL but the unit on the whole is not.
5. For your children yes, leave the breaker on and hand them the screwdriver and make sure they lick their fingers first. :twisted:
6. Adjustment is for the pilot signal that is sent to the pilot wire on the J1772 side. For example if you were to plug into a circuit that can't handle the full 30 amps/50 amps you can dial it down.
7. :roll:

TurboFroggy said:

1. 25 foot j1772 cable
2. 14-50 on a 5 foot cord
3. GFI is built into the unit as per SAE J1772 spec.
4. All the individual components are UL but the unit on the whole is not.
5. For your children yes, leave the breaker on and hand them the screwdriver and make sure they lick their fingers first. :twisted:
6. Adjustment is for the pilot signal that is sent to the pilot wire on the J1772 side. For example if you were to plug into a circuit that can't handle the full 30 amps/50 amps you can dial it down.
7. :roll:

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TurboFroggy, can you confirm that it actually has GFCI protection built in? I've asked Rich twice and he has never responded but a recent post of his says he is "rushing" of get GFCI installed which to me means all the P3s sold don't have GFCI thus he doesn't care about safety and has been knowingly selling an unsafe product.

I'd love to proven wrong but it shouldn't surprise anyone since there seems to be a trend of people selling non isolated EV chargers also trying to sell EVSEs without GFCI.

QueenBee said:

TurboFroggy, can you confirm that it actually has GFCI protection built in? I've asked Rich twice and he has never responded but a recent post of his says he is "rushing" of get GFCI installed which to me means all the P3s sold don't have GFCI thus he doesn't care about safety and has been knowingly selling an unsafe product.

I'd love to proven wrong but it shouldn't surprise anyone since there seems to be a trend of people selling non isolated EV chargers also trying to sell EVSEs without GFCI.

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I don't know if it is protected, or not, but there is a lot of folks who only shop the bottom line and wouldn't even know to ask some of the pertinent questions that you have.

TonyWilliams said:

QueenBee said:

TurboFroggy, can you confirm that it actually has GFCI protection built in? I've asked Rich twice and he has never responded but a recent post of his says he is "rushing" of get GFCI installed which to me means all the P3s sold don't have GFCI thus he doesn't care about safety and has been knowingly selling an unsafe product.

I'd love to proven wrong but it shouldn't surprise anyone since there seems to be a trend of people selling non isolated EV chargers also trying to sell EVSEs without GFCI.

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I don't know if it is protected, or not, but there is a lot of folks who only shop the bottom line and wouldn't even know to ask some of the pertinent questions that you have.

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BTW: TurboFroggy another thing to note is that "All the individual components are UL but the unit on the whole is not." isn't entirely true. The case is not NRTL so it hasn't been certified to any particularly NEMA enclosure rating types although I would expect it to be pretty easy to design something to the basic NEMA 3R standard and obviously the custom circuit board(s) aren't certified.

Tony, his prices don't particularly excite me though. Mass produced units like the 30 amp clipper creeks which are still made in the US can be had for for $100 to $160 cheaper. Although they don't have the 120/240 volt support which I suspect might make it more difficult to pass NRTL certification or else you'd think more would support it? The additional cost has to be negligible so I'm thinking you need additional safety components to pass (such as adapters that limit the EVSE pilot amperage, etc.) but I'm just guessing.

Anyway, I can see why TurboFroggy would assume it has GFCI as it would be negligent, reckless, and absurd to be selling an EVSE without it. Considering how little the components to add this to an EVSE cost I think this is just another case of someone ignoring industry standard safety practices because they don't think they are needed.

Rich has confirmed that the current P3 does NOT have GFCI protection.

The on going thread of Code and safety. Yes the current P3 don't have a GFCI detector in them. Yes I am coming clean on this with this group... outdoors I figured the outlet was going to be GFCIed...as it should be.

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The J1772 specs list GFCI as a required feature. OK... it's going to be a real pain in the butt for us old school EVers with non isolated chargers. and Iffy flooded battery packs. Having a CLEAN home built EV is a real step up in the required testing and gear. Heck having a solid chassis ground is getting clients to bite the bullet. The OEM customer is so clean that you can't measure ground current... I live in both worlds right now. The P3 with GFCI is going to require a isolated charger as the target. So...I have to bring my entire charger product line into sane compliance. The Racers and do it your selfers.. are becoming a rare breed. Enough to to live on but not enough to do any profitable volumes on. So.. lots to reinvent....I do have prototypes of what I need to make. They work, and are almost Beta ready. We will have a GFCI circuit up and running this week... and depending on the flow of orders and a closing market door, they will be on the Rev4 P3 main board by the end of the month. IF you have your P3 on a GFCI circuit no need for a additional one. If you insist, we can up grade, but the chances of a P3,s GFCI catching a OEM EV doing something wrong is about 1 on a Million.

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Keith, Well I have just spent the last 2 hours trying to find the GFCI requirements for J1772 EVSEs... and there is none listed. So I am not in a rush to stop the presses. Yes P3 should be plugged into a GFCI outlet. That takes care of that. No I am not in a hurry to recall anything. The Dog chewing a cable... well that better be protected by a GFCI circuit. One way or the other. I see no reason why you can't use a P3 anywhere you want to.. With a GFCI protected outlet... would be better.

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Keep in mind... I have a non isolated charger, in a home built race car... that I charge in the rain....And I do have the grounds hooked up... and have never been even tickled.

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Keith, many of us are not so concerned... and have lived a long and happy life around EVs. Clearly you are worried...I don't think it's such a big deal... and I am working on solving the issues. By the way fixing it will add about a $150 bucks worth of parts and testing and time.. to support a feature that, well ,will never be used in the normal actions of a OEM Ev. I feel it's busting but to make the paper hangers happy. I am certainly not going to make you happy until every letter of the specs are met.

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