Can I get a Data Dump on EVSE Options for a 2013 Leaf

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pgrokkos

Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
22
Location
New Jersey
Sorry for the request but can't seem to get a complete answer on this - and have been getting some contradictory information from local dealers with what I've read on here.

What are the best charging options for a 2013 Leaf assuming I go for a stand alone piece of equipment that I would have installed in a garage?

What type of an electrical connection do I need to have installed to put the stand alone option in? (I just saw an ad on the top of this page for a Nissan certified unit that plugs into a 240V 12A outlet - so all I need to have preinstalled is a 240V 12 A outlet?).

What are the options if I go for an EVSE upgrade cable that I've read about on this forum?

If I go with the EVSE upgrade cable, do I still get the 240V 12 A outlet as that is what the cord would plug into?

Lastly, is there a faster charge alternative realistic for a homeowner, 16A? Something that takes advantage of the faster charge on the higher end Leaf model?

Thanks for any and all info including extra info on any questions I did not ask.
 
And here's why you will want a 30A EVSE. At 6.6 kW you will gain about 24 miles of range per hour of charging. With a 12A 240V EVSE, you will be limited to 2.8 kW of power, and will only gain about 10 miles of range per hour of charging. You will also preheat partially on battery with the 12A EVSE. There are more reasons, but Kentucky is playing basketball, and my wife wants me to stop typing :)
 
smkettner said:
First does your 2013 have the optional 6kW charger or the standard 3.3?

And what charger will your 2015 have? Same money to go with the 30A EVSE now, and 12A limits the 3.3kW charger to 2.8kW. I would install the 30A for a Volt. Same money, more future proof. Nissan website still states a 6.6kW charger in the SV ans SL (not 6kw) I think the mistake relates to using the car on 208 volts instead of 240. Or the Nissan website is still wrong (for the last couple months)
 
kentuckyleaf said:
Nissan website still states a 6.6kW charger in the SV ans SL (not 6kw) I think the mistake relates to using the car on 208 volts instead of 240. Or the Nissan website is still wrong (for the last couple months)

I really don't know why folks get worked up over some of this stuff. I will bet good money that it will be 30 amps, pure and simple. That's 7.2kW, and at 90% efficiency about 6.6kW into the battery. Not rocket science guys, and it doesn't make Nissan "wrong". They just haven't defined what 6.6kW means. By the way, the often repeated 6kW charger is likely 30 amps * 200 volts in Japan.

The same is true of the Rav4 / Tesla charger at 40 amps. They advertise it at "10kW", so are they lying?

Power -- Voltage -- at 88% efficiency into the battery
11kW ---- 277 ---- 9.7kW (the maximum voltage that the charger can accept)
10kW ---- 250 ---- 8.8kW (hey, it just happened to be 10kW)
9.6kW --- 240 ---- 8.4kW (typical residential power in North America)
9.2kW --- 230 ---- 8.1kW (typical voltage in the rest of the world)
8.3kW --- 208 ---- 7.3kW (typical voltage at a public charge station in North America)
8.0kW --- 200 ---- 7.0kW (typical voltage in Japan)

So, like always, it's wise to specify exactly what you're referring to.
 
kentuckyleaf said:
And here's why you will want a 30A EVSE. At 6.6 kW you will gain about 24 miles of range per hour of charging.
And here is why a 16A EVSE is probably all you will ever need: It will charge your 2013 LEAF from Turtle to 100% while you are sleeping. Dreaming of getting an EV some day with a huge battery? No problem. How many miles do you plan to drive per year? 15K? 20K? 30K? Even at 30K you will be charging an average of only about 7 hours a night with a 16A EVSE. The huge battery actually means you have less need for a faster EVSE, since it gives you a big buffer. You can drive much farther in one day than you can charge in one night. So long as you don't drive really crazy mileage (like 50K miles per year) the charging will catch up over time.

Now, there's nothing wrong with having a 30A EVSE, except that it's overkill, and you need a 40A circuit for it. You can probably save some money by going with a 16A EVSE on a 20A circuit.

Faster charging is very nice away from home, and if you do get the 6kW charger you may find yourself waiting only an hour for enough juice to get home when it would take two hours otherwise. Fortunately for that case, public chargers are 30A.

Ray
 
pgrokkos said:
If I go with the EVSE upgrade cable, do I still get the 240V 12 A outlet as that is what the cord would plug into?
No. The EVSEupgrade comes as either 12A or 16A, but even if you get the 12A version you wouldn't be able to plug it into a 12A circuit (if you could find one, which you can't). For a continuous load, which EV charging is, the circuit needs to be at least 25% over the amperage of the load. That's why we say a 20A circuit for a 16A EVSE. A 12A EVSE could be run on a 15A circuit, and in fact that is why 120v EVSEs are limited to 12A, so they can be plugged into a standard 15A 120v outlet. But for the EVSEupgrade the native connection is to a 20A outlet (specifically an L6-20 receptacle) even if you have the 12A version.

Ray
 
Wow, I'd hate to have no idea what an amp or volt or kilowatt was and come and ask us (mostly early adoptors with engineering backgrounds) for advice. We have no idea how to talk to real people with simple questions :)

The OP states that they want to obtain the Leaf with the 6.6 kW charger, and a stand alone EVSE inside a garage. It doesn't say lease or purchase, which is an important part of the question. If it is a lease, you might find that Nissan doesn't want the upgraded L1 back, so you will need to replace the L1, or purchase the upgraded EVSE for $1027 for the 3.84 kWh version. You can purchase a 30A EVlink from Lowes for $800.

Next part of the question. Are we installing a 20A or 40A circuit? 20A will likely use 12 awg or 10 awg wire, 40A you move to 8 awg or 6 awg. Bigger wire is a little more expensive, and a little more difficult to install, but the electrictian's labor will be your largest expense. This means you might pay $1000 for the 20A circuit, and $1400 for the 40A. Now there is the possibility that you are in an older home, and your electrical panel will not accomodate the 40A circuit. In that case go with the 20A circuit, EVSE upgrade, and call it done. If your panel can accomodate the 40A circuit, that is what you should pay to install.

Now here's why. Say you commute to work, go to lunch, and it's cold outside. You get home with 10 miles range indicated. Now your spouse had a difficult day, and she would like to go to a relaxing meal in town, which is 9 miles away (in our case, this happens quite often). With your 30A EVSE, you can plug in while changing clothes, and in half an hour or so, you are ready to go. If you have a 12A or 16A, you might want to wait an hour (which is what we must do with the 3.3kW charger in our Leaf). When you find yourself in this situation, you might wonder why you installed the 20A circuit & 16A EVSE, when for pretty much the same money, you could have had the 30A. That's my point. Sometimes you want a faster charge in your garage. Let's say you have friends that live 60 miles away, and they purchase a Leaf with the 6.6kW charger. They want to come visit you. You like your friends, but you would rather they only spend a few hours at your house. Maybe You really don't want them spending the night. They can use your 30A EVSE, and gain about 24 miles per hour charging, or use your 16A and gain 12 miles per hour charging. You can cut the visit to 3 hours instead of overnight. Your friends don't have a Leaf now (maybe) but what about next year, or in 5 years?

Now if don't take my advice, and install the 20A circuit, You could always pay the SAME MONEY AGAIN to upgrade to 40A in five years. Folks, if we were talking about a $2000 price tag on the 20A circuit/16A EVSE and a $4000 on the 40A circuit/30A EVSE I'd say we have something to think about. More likely we are discussing spending $2000 for the 20A circuit/16A EVSE or $2200 for the 40A circuit/30A EVSE, with the possibility of really wanting the 30A EVSE now, and really needing the 30A EVSE in five years. For a little more money, or maybe the exact same money, you can have the 30A EVSE, and it might be very useful from time to time, and very necessary in the future. That's my point.
 
TonyWilliams said:
I really don't know why folks get worked up over some of this stuff. I will bet good money that it will be 30 amps, pure and simple. That's 6.6kW, and at 90% efficiency about 6kW into the battery. Not rocket science guys, and it doesn't make Nissan "wrong". They just haven't defined what 6.6kW means.

The 3.3kW charger draws 3.7kW from the grid and dumps 3.3kW into the battery. I'd wager a guess that the 6.6kW charger will pull 7.4kW from the grid (if available) and dump 6.6kW into the battery.

Or the 6.6kW charger might be more efficient and be content with 7.2kW (which is 240V@30A) to put 6.6kW into the battery.
 
Or the 6.6kW charger might be more efficient and be content with 7.2kW (which is 240V@30A) to put 6.6kW into the battery.

Goot point. I think people get worked up is because people get worked up. Is it a 6kW charger like I see all over this forum, or is it 6.6kW like the Nissan website states? My guess is Nissan is correct and we will find that it is 6.6kW into the battery at 240 volts, just like Nissan was correct that it is 3.3kW into the battery at 240 volts. I wasn't saying Nissan was wrong, but if they are wrong, they have continued to stand by their 6.6kW claim for months now. All I know is the 3.3kW charger isn't very useful for a quick pick me up at the Nissan Dealer when I'm running short. Twice as fast would be great, since we drive past the Nissan dealership about 10 miles from our house. Half an hour sitting there beats an hour, or a tow, any day. (of course the dealership likely has 208 volts powering their EVSE)
 
What are the best charging options for a 2013 Leaf assuming I go for a stand alone piece of equipment that I would have installed in a garage?

Answer: 30A EVSE on 40A circuit

What type of an electrical connection do I need to have installed to put the stand alone option in? (I just saw an ad on the top of this page for a Nissan certified unit that plugs into a 240V 12A outlet - so all I need to have preinstalled is a 240V 12 A outlet?).

Answer: 40A circuit hardwired to 30A EVSE (the ad you noticed is not the EVSE you really want)

What are the options if I go for an EVSE upgrade cable that I've read about on this forum?

Answer: You would use a 20A circuit for this unit, with a L6-20 receptacle. Like Planet4ever suggested

If I go with the EVSE upgrade cable, do I still get the 240V 12 A outlet as that is what the cord would plug into?

Answer: No, See Planet4Ever's post, you will need a 20A circuit, there really is no "homeowner" 12A circuit, plus there is a need to overrate the circuit due to the duration of the charge. You would need a 20A circuit.

Lastly, is there a faster charge alternative realistic for a homeowner, 16A? Something that takes advantage of the faster charge on the higher end Leaf model?

Answer: Yes. The 30A EVSE is the standard homeowner EVSE, and it is installed on a 40A circuit. If you have 200A service like most moderen homes, this should not be a problem. Your electrician will need to do a load calculation, but most of the time you would be able to add a 40A circuit to a 200A panel.

We were getting a bit off topic, I wanted to re-address the OP with a clear mind, not distracted by Kentucky basketball (and an unexpected win!)
 
kentuckyleaf said:
Or the 6.6kW charger might be more efficient and be content with 7.2kW (which is 240V@30A) to put 6.6kW into the battery.

Goot point. I think people get worked up is because people get worked up. Is it a 6kW charger like I see all over this forum, or is it 6.6kW like the Nissan website states? My guess is Nissan is correct and we will find that it is 6.6kW into the battery at 240 volts, just like Nissan was correct that it is 3.3kW into the battery at 240 volts. I wasn't saying Nissan was wrong, but if they are wrong, they have continued to stand by their 6.6kW claim for months now. All I know is the 3.3kW charger isn't very useful for a quick pick me up at the Nissan Dealer when I'm running short. Twice as fast would be great, since we drive past the Nissan dealership about 10 miles from our house. Half an hour sitting there beats an hour, or a tow, any day. (of course the dealership likely has 208 volts powering their EVSE)


Another common EV misconception is that one needs faster charging at home but few ever use it but think it is a must. I have almost 7kw charging on my LEAF and I always charge at about 3.xxkw at home. When I travel to parking garages etc, I always charge at the max rate of about 6.XXkw simply because that is when it is practical. Many new EV owners think they need the fastest charging possible at home simply because they have a lack of practical experience and charging history or have some fear of missing out on something they don't use. I lost count of how many people think they need L3 at home but when questioned don't even need 3.8kw. Some users with unique circumstances need more than say 3.xx at home but these folks are also those that usually use an EV outside the common parameters as well. If the LEAF had a much larger pack like the RAV4 then this principal would need to be scaled up but the true utility is for traveling.

I do intend to have the output of my upgraded EVSE changed to support about 20A since this is about 4.8kw and is not only more than adequate for home use but is very useful for portable use as well for the occasional dryer outlet share when at a friends. This will charge a LEAF in most cases in a few hours without concerns of a larger circuit.
 
You guys are awesome. Can't believe the amount of responses and real info here.

Not sure if this strongly influences any suggestions, but my plan is to lease, not buy. I'm comfortable with the extra costs of doing so, and am willing to pay it for the piece of mind that in 2 or 3 years depending on which way I go, I can trade the car in for the next gen Leaf - I'm hoping - with over 100 mile range. I'm getting the SL or SV so I think either has the faster charger option capability

I would love to be able to go with the cheaper option of simply an upgraded EVSE cable, but it seems like from the info here, I'm really sacrificing a significant amount of charging time capability by going that route (I need to read some of the info posted here again as I don't have an engineer background at all and am getting lost in the details posted).

But from a first read, it seems like:

I can save some $$ on the electrician install by going with a 20A circuit of a simple outlet and then a EVSE cable upgrade. Seems like this should cost something like $1k or so for the electrician plus I seem to recall seeing something like $400 or so for the upgrade to the cable.

I would have to deal with the upgraded cable at lease turn in but have seen suggestions that it can be traded perhaps with other forum members.

I can spend a little more on the electrician for the 40A circuit, maybe 1400, and that would give me a connection to a device that I would purchase for about $800 to 1k. The device would provide a faster charge, more than double the time to charge of the cable option. But this will be much more future proof and likely to support whatever next electric car I get.

My house is fairly new, 2 150A panels? I think, so should be fine for either option. And the panels or about 6 feet from the spot where the charger would go so I don't anticipate a problem on either option running the wiring. So bottom line sounds like about $400 or so difference for an electrician to put 40 vs 20A and about 500 difference for the unit itself over the upgraded cable. Am I reading it right?

If that is the case, seems like the extra $1k for futureproofing plus the extra charging time bonus seems worth it.
 
Your situation sounds ideal. The additional cost for the larger wires should be minimal.
 
Many new EV owners think they need the fastest charging possible at home simply because they have a lack of practical experience and charging history or have some fear of missing out on something they don't use.

Right, you might not use any more than 3.8kW at home. Maybe not ever. But if you might want to charge after work and before going out for the evening, the $200 (more or less) extra you spend on the 30A EVSE installation will be well spent. If you might someday have visitors that want to charge, the $200 will be well spent. In my expierence, granted only 8 months of Leaf ownership, we often charge after work before an evening out. We often have less than 20 miles range after commuting, especially in the winter, and need to charge for an hour or more before taking the Leaf for a meal. We could fire up the frozen solid ICE and let it warm up and take that to town, but that really stinks when the Leaf is warm and in the garage, just a few miles short of enough range for the trip. There are many times I wish the 2012 had the 6.6kW charger, and it is comforting to know that I am ready to use that capacity with my current 30A EVSE, which by the way was cheaper for me to install than the 16A EVSE upgrade would have cost, considering I would have needed to purchase the entire upgraded unit since I'm leasing.

Before you ask, we work in one town and spend our evenings out in another. This is the community we live in, have friends and relatives in, and desire to support, so it isn't like we want to stop somewhere on the way home.

Other things to maybe consider. If you have a fire, what would your insurance company think about the EVSE upgrade? I'm not saying they would deny your claim, but you would need to figure that out for yourself. I understand the EVSE upgrade is not likely to be the source of the fire, but would that even matter to a company that is looking for ANY reason to deny a claim? If I'm making a recommendation to a layman, it will be to utilize UL listed equipment, installed by a licensed electrician, properly permitted and inspected. Period.

my two cents
 
you posted while I was typing my post, so update. If your panel is 6 feet from your EVSE, the difference in a 20A circuit and 40A circuit is about none. The electrician will spend the same time obtaining permits, rolling the truck, and installing the EVSE. Part cost will likely be the same for hardwired 30A EVSE and 20A outlet, because all the electrician needs to purchase is a 8 awg pigtail, and no outlet parts to hardwire the EVSE (in addition to the breaker). If I was bidding the jobs, both the 20A and 40A circuit would run about $300.
 
Since you will have a 6kw charger in the car I recommend the Schneider or Leviton 30 amp evse installed on a 40 amp circuit. If you really want to future proof maybe get the 40a Leviton on a 50 amp circuit. If you want to be cheep then the small Leviton o a 20a circuit will serve fine. HomeDepot.com is fine but you might save $100 shopping around.

I would only do the evse upgrade if you will be frequently charging at a location with 240v circuit available. The upgrade can be done after you have driven the car a bit and evaluate your needs. Depending on the location and fequency even this may get to be a bore and you will put a small Leviton at the location.
 
At home I agree. In two years and 30,000 miles, there has been less than a half dozen times when I could have really used a 6.6Kw charger at home. Those where the times when we used the car extensively during the day, were now home, and would have liked to get enough charge to use it again later in the day... For opportunity charging away from home, where there is no QC option, it is a different story and 6.6Kw would be of real advantage.

EVDRIVER said:
Another common EV misconception is that one needs faster charging at home but few ever use it but think it is a must.
 
EVSE upgrade wil be offering a high-power upgrade version for the 2013 LEAF, Phil mentioned it elsewhere. This would likely give about 4.8kw which wil charge the LEAF only slightly slower in practical charge time over a 32A unit since the LEAF will not be taking advantage of the full 32A. Once you see that actual charge differences you will understand why there is not such a big difference. You will be able to get a very fast L2 and even portable portable charge for under $300. For many folks this will also eliminate the need for a 40A circuit.
 
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