Home outlet for Level I: better to be GFCI outlet...or not?

My utility (Portland General Electric) recommends only using GFCI outlets for charging my new Leaf using Level I charger.

The electrician I called, who specializes in electric car charging, recommends that the outlet NOT be GFCI because GFCI trips the circuit and therefore halts the charging.

I'd appreciate your help in deciding what is best.

FYI my current outlets are not-GFCI. They are also on the side of the house (not under a garage or cover).

Glad to be part of this forum (110 miles on the odometer so far!)

If you're using the Panasonic L1 EVSE that comes with the LEAF, I believe it already has a built-in GFCI inside. So no need for another one outside.

I charged with a 50ft extension cord on a GFCI outlet for the first few months of ownership, putting about 55-60 miles on the car every day. Only had a problem with GFCI tripping when I was using a wimpy extension cord.

To elaborate on Volusiano's comment, ALL J1772-compliant EVSE's include GFI protection, so an external one is redundant, and could just be a point of failure, as your electrician says.

I would note that many, many owners are using GFCI outlets with no problems. My understanding is that it's only a problem with old or worn out GFCI outlets. In a lot of places, garage outlets are required to be GFCI, anyway.

I have had a couple of problems charging on GFI's out in the wild. Yes, when they trip, the charging stops. Not a big deal, but you're left without a charge unless you have a smart phone and the Carwings notifications (which I don't).

Also, I have noticed some weird behavior while charging at home on the GFI. Every once in a while, the GFI does NOT trip, but the LED light on the garage door sensors go out (the light beam that's suppose to make the door go up when someone or something gets in the way). When this happens, the door doesn't go down anymore without reversing. The circuit is still live, never tripped, and the car still charges. It was perplexing the first time or two, but then realized that I had changed the plug to GFI. Press "Test" and then "Reset" on the GFI and everything is back to normal.

Amiel said:

My utility (Portland General Electric) recommends only using GFCI outlets for charging my new Leaf using Level I charger.

The electrician I called, who specializes in electric car charging, recommends that the outlet NOT be GFCI because GFCI trips the circuit and therefore halts the charging.

I'd appreciate your help in deciding what is best.

FYI my current outlets are not-GFCI. They are also on the side of the house (not under a garage or cover).

Glad to be part of this forum (110 miles on the odometer so far!)

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The EVSE has its own ground fault detection, but imho these exterior outlets should have GFCI for safety with other outdoor uses (electric hedge trimmers, etc...). Somewhere on the forum, folks have discussed the milliamp threshold where nuisance trips occur with the LEAF equipment. You could look for outlets that specify a threshold above that.

The point of GFCIs is to protect users from being electrocuted. They are generally required/recommended in sites around a residence where the probability of being shocked is highest, i.e. where the resistance to ground potential is lowest (usually because of the increased exposure to water) -- which would be bathrooms, kitchens, basements, and outdoors. A GFCI is designed to reduce the possibility of a lethal electrical current from passing through the heart or damaging other body parts.

Without saying more about how a GFCI operates, there is no question that 1) it is much safer to not use a plug-in EVSE, but to use a direct wired EVSE instead and 2) it is safer to use a plug-in EVSE to a GFCI receptacle than to a non-GFCI receptacle. Any built-in GFCI protection in an EVSE only protects past the control box (like at the J1772 connector), not at the plug. If a GFCI trips without clear reason, unless the GFCI is faulty there is usually current leakage somewhere in the wiring that needs to be corrected (probably by rewiring). Also you are unlikely to have nuisance trips if your EVSE is plugged into a dedicated circuit (preferably 20a btw because of the likely thicker gauge wire used is less likely to overheat).

Do not use extension cords for charging your EV, and especially not around water!

I am not a licensed electrician, so please feel free to correct me...

I would trust the electrician with no GFI for charging indoors. Outdoor GFI is required anyway.
As long as the electrician is pulling wire I would suggest a 240v circuit. You need 20 or 40 amp rating depending on the evse.

posted in error

The EVSE has a GFCI so I'd skip the GFCI outlet if possible. A GFCI outlet won't add anything. However, I was under the impression that all outside outlets had to be GFCIs.

To the OP,
Seems like you got your GFCI question answered. I would add another tip that could potentially help you out in the future...

Whether you're having a new receptacle installed or using an existing one, don't use the spring clips that are on the back for easier wire connections. We've seen cases where these deteriorate over time, and with an older receptacle especially, they can get hot with the large amount of sustained current the EVSE will draw.

It's much better to use the screw terminals on the side of the receptacle for a better connection....

Thank you all for your responses to my question. This is extremely helpful. To summarize what I'm taking from the discussion:
1. Get the outlet GFCI to provide safety that the EVSE does not provide and that other uses of the outlet (electric lawnmower, etc) call for. (I have an old home, which is why they are not GFCI now).
2. Plug EVSE into a dedicated circuit with 20A or great gauge to reduce the likelihood of nuisance trips (which are only happening with a fraction of users anyhow)
3. If electrician is plugging wire anyhow, use a 240V circuit (20A or 40A, depending on EVSE)
4. Don't use the spring clips on the back of receptacles because they can get hot from the sustained current

One remaining question: if I get a dedicated 240V circuit put in, will that work with a Level 1 EVSE? I'm assuming the answer is (a) Yes and (b) And it will give me the flexibility to put a Level 2 in there in the future. Correct assumptions?

Amiel said:

... One remaining question: if I get a dedicated 240V circuit put in, will that work with a Level 1 EVSE? I'm assuming the answer is (a) Yes and (b) And it will give me the flexibility to put a Level 2 in there in the future. Correct assumptions?

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Only if you get it upgraded. See http://EVSEUpgrade.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for details. It's a great option and I highly recommend it.

Another option is to pull the wire for 40a 240v, but have the electrician only use it for a 120v circuit for now. Later you can change the breaker and outlet and have full L2.

1. You don't need the GFCI for the EVSE because it has one. Two probably don't work as well as one.
2. If you're using a 120v EVSE you don't need a 20A circuit. A 15A circuit will do.
3. If you're installing a new circuit ("pulling wire") for a 240v charger then you might as well put in a 40A circuit assuming your panel and the EVSE will support this. If the EVSE won't support 40A install wire for it and then just use a smaller breaker that matches the EVSE. It's cheap to swap out the breaker but expensive to pull wire. (The breaker can be a lower amperage than the wire will support).
4. Some 120v outlets allow the electrician to just stick the wires in (back stabbing). This is very fast but not desirable. Great suggestion about avoiding this BTW.

The only EVSE that I know of that will work with both 120v and 240v is the EVSEupgrade. They take your 120v charger and "upgrade it" so it will also support 240v charging.

Amiel said:

One remaining question: if I get a dedicated 240V circuit put in, will that work with a Level 1 EVSE? I'm assuming the answer is (a) Yes and (b) And it will give me the flexibility to put a Level 2 in there in the future. Correct assumptions?

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If you aren't having your factory EVSE upgraded right now, and you are just going to try L1 charging for now, you don't need 240 VAC. But, if you have the electrician there to do the work, I would have him prewire everything for both 120 VAC and 240 VAC. My garage has a subpanel box, with BOTH a 20 AMP 120 VAC outlet and an L6 240 VAC outlet. The 240 needs 2 hot legs and ground. The 120 needs a hot leg, neutral, and ground.
If you don't think you will go the EVSE Upgrade path, skip the L6 240 outlet, as most L2 EVSE's need to be hardwired in.

Just my two cents...sorry for bumping

The instruction manual for the volt says you are not supposed to use a GFCI outlet. Here is a link to review https://besttoolexpert.com/gfci-outlet/ However... outlets located in garages are required to be GFCI by code in most cities now. The 120 Voltec unit does have a GFCI built in. You have a couple of choices here:

1 Violate your local code and replace the GFCI outlet with a standard commercial grade outlet. (The charger has a GFCI detector built in.)

2 Try a different brand of GFCI outlet. Some may be more compatible with the Voltec charger than others.

I think that the issue is just that using more than one GFCI in series greatly increases the likelihood of false trips. It may also make it harder for the EVSE to verify the ground. I'd say if the setup works, don't worry about it.

One remaining question: if I get a dedicated 240V circuit put in, will that work with a Level 1 EVSE? I'm assuming the answer is (a) Yes and (b) And it will give me the flexibility to put a Level 2 in there in the future. Correct assumptions?

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Hey Amiel,

You can buy a multi-voltage (120/240 volt) multi-current EVSE pretty cheap, check-out https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=12489. And it's nice to have two, in case one fails or just so that you have one at home and can leave one in the car.

Ron

oz10k said:

One remaining question: if I get a dedicated 240V circuit put in, will that work with a Level 1 EVSE? I'm assuming the answer is (a) Yes and (b) And it will give me the flexibility to put a Level 2 in there in the future. Correct assumptions?

Click to expand...

Hey Amiel,

You can buy a multi-voltage (120/240 volt) multi-current EVSE pretty cheap, check-out https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=12489. And it's nice to have two, in case one fails or just so that you have one at home and can leave one in the car.

Ron

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Do you really think he's still worrying about this after 5 years? :lol: