Looking for a small portable DCFC

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aatheus

Active member
Joined
Sep 20, 2012
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Apologies if this question has been asked before.

I am wondering who is currently offering a "ready to buy" portable DC fast charger that could fit in the Leaf's trunk? I would love to have a box that would run off a 50A RV hookup and output 10kW DC to the CHAdeMO port. I had a look at Andromeda's offerings, but their $25k portable charger is out of reach for me.

Related to that, are there any projects like OpenEVSE that are tinkering with an open design DCFC? I imagine the thyristers to drive high voltage & high amperage DC would be tough to get ahold of.
 
aatheus said:
Apologies if this question has been asked before.

I am wondering who is currently offering a "ready to buy" portable DC fast charger that could fit in the Leaf's trunk? I would love to have a box that would run off a 50A RV hookup and output 10kW DC to the CHAdeMO port. I had a look at Andromeda's offerings, but their $25k portable charger is out of reach for me.

Related to that, are there any projects like OpenEVSE that are tinkering with an open design DCFC? I imagine the thyristers to drive high voltage & high amperage DC would be tough to get ahold of.
Click to expand...

Yes, it has been asked before.

Phil (Ingineer) got my hopes up when he mentioned the possibility, but AFAIK, neither he or anyone else has announced the intent to produce one.
 
edatoakrun said:
Phil (Ingineer) got my hopes up when he mentioned the possibility, but AFAIK, neither he or anyone else has announced the intent to produce one.
Click to expand...

Phil any cost estimates if you care to guess?.. can it be done for under $3000?.. no UL certification needed. It has to be a tolerant design since RV hookup sockets can be nasty.
 
edatoakrun said:
aatheus said:
Apologies if this question has been asked before.

I am wondering who is currently offering a "ready to buy" portable DC fast charger that could fit in the Leaf's trunk? I would love to have a box that would run off a 50A RV hookup and output 10kW DC to the CHAdeMO port. I had a look at Andromeda's offerings, but their $25k portable charger is out of reach for me.

Related to that, are there any projects like OpenEVSE that are tinkering with an open design DCFC? I imagine the thyristers to drive high voltage & high amperage DC would be tough to get ahold of.
Click to expand...

Yes, it has been asked before.

Phil (Ingineer) got my hopes up when he mentioned the possibility, but AFAIK, neither he or anyone else has announced the intent to produce one.
Click to expand...

That's a shame to hear. I would be happy to drop $10k on a 10kW charger. It would fit my needs nicely.
 
aatheus said:
That's a shame to hear. I would be happy to drop $10k on a 10kW charger. It would fit my needs nicely.
Click to expand...
Nissan previously bragged about how they got a non-portable CHAdeMO charger down to $10K and it was listed briefly at http://nissanqc.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. It's now gone, leaving only the $15.5K model.
 
There has been detailed discussions about this concept in our SoCal group for over a year, including discussions about whether Andromeda could make a smaller 10 kW unit.

Several significant obstacles:
Development cost for a good, safe, reliable design (we are talking potentially fatal voltages and currents) could be many 10s of thousands of $.
Just getting CHAdeMO tecnology access is expensive, and the normal price of just the cable is high, as has been mentioned.

If it is a real product, it needs UL certification to be sold, which is very expensive and time-consuming.
A reliable, efficient design requires high-quality parts that can handle high currents at high frequencies (20 kHz and above), together with special low-loss inductors.
High power at high frequencies means that you are operating a potential medium-power transmitter, so RFI is a significant problem. The 50 kW Andromeda unit has substantial radiation.

The weight of a standard Eaton 48 kW DC QC is upwards of 1K pounds. The Fuji 25 kW DC QC is about half of that, and an Andromeda is 100-200 lbs I believe, so getting down to a manageable portable weight that could be removed from the trunk is probably doable, but it is a challenge. The unit will need active cooling during operation.

The market for such a unit would primarily be limited to 2011 and 2012 LEAFs. 2013 LEAF owners will simply settle for paying extra for 6.6 kW AC chargers.
 
tbleakne said:
There has been detailed discussions about this concept in our SoCal group for over a year, including discussions about whether Andromeda could make a smaller 10 kW unit.

Several significant obstacles:
Development cost for a good, safe, reliable design (we are talking potentially fatal voltages and currents) could be many 10s of thousands of $.
Just getting CHAdeMO tecnology access is expensive, and the normal price of just the cable is high, as has been mentioned.

If it is a real product, it needs UL certification to be sold, which is very expensive and time-consuming.
A reliable, efficient design requires high-quality parts that can handle high currents at high frequencies (20 kHz and above), together with special low-loss inductors.
High power at high frequencies means that you are operating a potential medium-power transmitter, so RFI is a significant problem. The 50 kW Andromeda unit has substantial radiation.

The weight of a standard Eaton 48 kW DC QC is upwards of 1K pounds. The Fuji 25 kW DC QC is about half of that, and an Andromeda is 100-200 lbs I believe, so getting down to a manageable portable weight that could be removed from the trunk is probably doable, but it is a challenge. The unit will need active cooling during operation.

The market for such a unit would primarily be limited to 2011 and 2012 LEAFs. 2013 LEAF owners will simply settle for paying extra for 6.6 kW AC chargers.
Click to expand...

Ah, so CHAdeMO has the Blu-Ray problem. One supplier of the connector, licence fees to use the spec, special cable needed. Bah.

The RFI is definitely a concern if they are using high-frequency switching power supplies to make the high voltage DC. I imagine that there would need to be a substantial ground to shield the chassis from RFI. That should be doable over the AC ground, if the ground is actually working. Those RV hookups are pretty abused, so who knows.

Is the Fuji 25kW charger available for direct purchase, i.e. without getting installation and a support contract and being a business?
 
aatheus said:
Ah, so CHAdeMO has the Blu-Ray problem. One supplier of the connector, licence fees to use the spec, special cable needed. Bah.
Is the Fuji 25kW charger available for direct purchase, i.e. without getting installation and a support contract and being a business?
Click to expand...

Not true. The CHAdeMO is now an open architecture (thanks to competition from the GM inspired SAE Frankenplug) and there are many DOZENS of manufacturers of the units, and at least 5 different nozzle suppliers (I have a Dyden one hanging in my garage right now).

The launch customer for Fuji in the USA is EVoasis, so you might be able to buy one through them. I do know they are over $30k each (maybe closer to $40k). There is nothing "portable" about it.

I have a contract for the Andromeda QC, but delivery is lagging. You could throw this in the trunk of a LEAF with the rear seats down. Since it can operate on just about any power source, it is ideal for a mobile unit (in that respect, anyway). The weight and physical size is still beyond normal portable.
 
Where does one obtain the spec? With these "closed" specs I've always been surprised someone doesn't conveniently leak it on the Internet and put a quick and irrevirsable end to the secrecy.

As stuff like open EVSE and people like Ingineer have shown, there is a lot of capability out there... Someone could probably start a project...
 
aatheus said:
Apologies if this question has been asked before.

I am wondering who is currently offering a "ready to buy" portable DC fast charger that could fit in the Leaf's trunk? I would love to have a box that would run off a 50A RV hookup and output 10kW DC to the CHAdeMO port. I had a look at Andromeda's offerings, but their $25k portable charger is out of reach for me.

Related to that, are there any projects like OpenEVSE that are tinkering with an open design DCFC? I imagine the thyristers to drive high voltage & high amperage DC would be tough to get ahold of.
Click to expand...
MINI E Pulled 12, 32, or 50 amps out of whatever you hooked it to, charging at up to 12kW on “50 amp” 240 volt RV sites until the breaker popped. Reality is many RV sites are 208 volt that offer 10kW “peak”, and 8.3kW sustained power (40amps(80% of 50A) x 208 volts). The MINI’s ~3.3 mi/kWh offered 27 to 39 miles per charge hour, but ~30 miles per charging hour average at reliable 8.3kW rate. 8.3kW at LEAF’s ~4.0 mi/kWh could yield up to ~33 miles per charge hour. Tony Williams is realizing ~3.5 mi/kWh or ~30 miles per charge hour in his RAV4 EV that pulls 40 amps.

aatheus said:
I actually grabbed a ClipperCreek CS-100 and it works nicely. However, you can't get me into a crossover vehicle. Sedan and hatchbacks for me :)
Click to expand...
The reason I got the Honda Fit EV is it’s 6.6kW charger and ~4.5 mi/kWh efficiency yields ~29 miles per charge hour at RV parks AND the ~1,000+ L2 sites now installed. Lease cost is ~$10k, including the car, after credits and maintenance.

No external cables or adapters, the trunk is empty, AND it’s a hatchback :)
 
Andromeda Power Introduces Onboard Fast Charger
ORCA Inceptive is an on-board fast-charging station, designed in Italy and fully manufactured in the USA. This on-board charger is provided with two CHAdeMO plugs and it is capable to transfer energy between the batteries of two EVs.
ORCA Inceptive is for the roadside assistance markets as well autonomous zero setup time fast charging stations useful for events. It also allows temporary rental solutions for retail shops wishing to avoid the expensive cost of fix installations.

ORCA Inceptive is a “DC Level 3 Charger” for CHAdeMO™ equipped Electrical Vehicles (EV), that delivers up to 50 kWatts output power. Its compact form factor (34" x 13" x 22") enables it to be easily installed in the trunk of an EV (shown in the trunk of a Nissan Leaf).
Click to expand...
http://www.prlog.org/12210745-andromeda-power-introduces-onboard-fast-charger.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Looks like this is in a 2013, so the unit fits farther forward than it would in a 2011-12 due to the hump. Also, it sticks up above the seat level when they are folded down.
 
unless you are renting RV spaces by the hour, I fail to see why you would want something like this? it would take up VERY valuable real estate, be heavy, etc.

I have camped in my LEAF several times and its "normal" camping. We park, plug in, set up tents, spend the night. Every time, I charged just at 120 (some campgrounds it was a struggle to charge "that" fast. One place, I had to reset the breaker 3-4 times over about 10 hours of charging)

There was one time when we actually spent 5 days camping at 3 different sites. Considering the first site was 75 miles away, I pulled in on empty and barely had enough time to recharge enough to make it to the next spot but we did it. (actually delayed our departure a few hours to make sure) We were benefited by the fact that we were traveling with others so took their car into town for breakfast instead of the LEAF to preserve range
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
I fail to see why you would want something like this? it would take up VERY valuable real estate, be heavy, etc.
Click to expand...
I didn't say I wanted one. I'm just curious where they are going to be manufactured and what they cost.
Considering the size and cost of most of the DCQC units, I'm just amazed they can build something this small.
But I don't think it will be very cheap. But it could be a cost effective choice for service trucks that have a fairly high kW generator on board.
 
TimLee said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
I fail to see why you would want something like this? it would take up VERY valuable real estate, be heavy, etc.
Click to expand...
I didn't say I wanted one. I'm just curious where they are going to be manufactured and what they cost.
Considering the size and cost of most of the DCQC units, I'm just amazed they can build something this small.
But I don't think it will be very cheap. But it could be a cost effective choice for service trucks that have a fairly high kW generator on board.
Click to expand...

oh ok, lets not be fooled by what we see here. The small DCFC you are seeing is not all that it appears to be especially when the transformer supporting it may not be visible
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
oh ok, lets not be fooled by what we see here. The small DCFC you are seeing is not all that it appears to be especially when the transformer supporting it may not be visible
Click to expand...

Let's not be fooled by innuendo with no basis. I happen to know how this unit works; do you?

As is so often suggested to you, you might take a deep breath before blurting out things you don't know anything about, particularly when that innuendo is damning and wrong.
 
TonyWilliams said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
oh ok, lets not be fooled by what we see here. The small DCFC you are seeing is not all that it appears to be especially when the transformer supporting it may not be visible
Click to expand...

Let's not be fooled by innuendo with no basis. I happen to know how this unit works; do you?

As is so often suggested to you, you might take a deep breath before blurting out things you don't know anything about, particularly when that innuendo is damning and wrong.
Click to expand...

i may be wrong but i think his comment refers to the Nissan DCFC and its size and not the portable one.

but would not be the first time i misunderstood a post. oh well, life goes on

**edit** ok, I now see the link for the Andromeda so would have to assume that is what he is talking about. how heavy is that thing?
 

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