PiP w/outlet fire at home due to aluminum wire

As an FYI, a new PiP owner on Priuschat had an outlet fire as outlined at http://priuschat.com/threads/need-advice-outlet-caught-fire.118751/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

http://priuschat.com/threads/need-advice-outlet-caught-fire.118751/page-3#post-1696803" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; is what an electrician found.

Keep in mind the PiP takes only 3 hours to charge from empty to full at 120 volts. I believe the PiP's L1 EVSE pulls 12 amps at max.

What, no gory pics? ;-)

Aluminum wiring was used in the 1950s and 1960s for wiring outlets and it turned out to be a bad idea. I've repaired overheating outlets due to aluminum wiring before. Today aluminum wiring is only allowed for larger-gauge wires and special anti-oxidation paste is required for the connections.

Certainly aluminum outlet wiring and EVs do not mix!

RegGuheert said:

Aluminum wiring was used in the 1950s and 1960s for wiring outlets and it turned out to be a bad idea. I've repaired overheating outlets due to aluminum wiring before. Today aluminum wiring is only allowed for larger-gauge wires and special anti-oxidation paste is required for the connections.

Certainly aluminum outlet wiring and EVs do not mix!

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Hmm... I think the main (100AMP) lines going to my house are aluminum.
(Although super fat... maybe 1/3 in diameter thick braided.)

Some time after I started charging the LEAF at home I had a problem with voltage drop.
If I charged the car I could see the rest of the house drop to ~50V, and lights would dim, etc.
I called PG&E and after saying it must be a problem with wiring in my house, the finally ran some tests and found that the connection from the main lines to the pole was oxidized. They disconnected my house line, cleaned it off (sanded it down?), re-attached it and all has been working fine since.

I wonder if the noisy charger in my early LEAF could have had anything to do with this.
(Note, house was built in 1949...)

RegGuheert said:

Aluminum wiring was used in the 1950s and 1960s for wiring outlets and it turned out to be a bad idea. I've repaired overheating outlets due to aluminum wiring before. Today aluminum wiring is only allowed for larger-gauge wires and special anti-oxidation paste is required for the connections.

Certainly aluminum outlet wiring and EVs do not mix!

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As I understand the problem with aluminum house wiring, in addition to oxidation, is that aluminum has a high expansion ratio. Gets warm, expands, loosens connections, cools, loose connection is high resistance, heats .......................

TEG said:

Some may recall that they made pennies out of aluminum in the 1940s. As I recall WWII used so much copper for ammunition and such that they switched a lot of formerly copper items to aluminum for a while.

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Picky, picky - No aluminum pennies. The 1943 "white" penny was zinc coated steel. In 1974 the mint proposed and minted some aluminum pennies, but they never got into circulation.

Congress will scream about costs, but will not do anything about it. For example, aluminum pennies and scrapping paper dollars for coins. They mandated dollar coin minting, but refuse to allow doing away with the paper.

Further down in that thread, a Priuschatter posted some more links about Al wire in the home. See http://priuschat.com/threads/need-advice-outlet-caught-fire.118751/page-3#post-1696900" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

ebill3 said:

TEG said:

Some may recall that they made pennies out of aluminum in the 1940s. As I recall WWII used so much copper for ammunition and such that they switched a lot of formerly copper items to aluminum for a while.

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Picky, picky - No aluminum pennies. The 1943 "white" penny was zinc coated steel.

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Yep, mine's got a bit of rust on it.

surfingslovak said:

What, no gory pics? ;-)

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He supplied one today.

See http://priuschat.com/threads/need-advice-outlet-caught-fire.118751/page-3#post-1698918" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

cwerdna said:

He supplied one today.

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Ouch! Time to feed the bit.ly monster again ;-)

Ugh.. This type of thing is only going to be more common as EV adoption picks up. Lots of homes are just not wired correctly to support these loads.

Besides installing a 240V charging station in my garage I also installed a brand new 20-amp plug with 12 gauge wire directly to the breaker box in case I needed to use 120V charging on our Leaf. I was very glad I installed this when we later bought a Volt because now we use that socket every day too.

Being that my house was built in the 1990's and still has substandard wiring, I wouldn't want to charge an EV from an ordinary outlet. All of our outlets had 14 gauge wire and they didn't even use the screws on the outlet, they just poked the wires into the holes on the back of the outlets. I've melted several of these outlets just from using a small 12-amp space heater when our central heat went out last winter. When I replaced them I used better outlets and at least screwed the wires down so they can handle a little more amperage.

Folks charging EVs in a garage ought to consider a smoke alarm. If the residence has interconnected smoke alarms and the garage alarm an be tapped into that circuit, great. If not, then a pair of wireless connedted alarms should do the job.

Bill

Argh!

My home was built with aluminum wiring, and I've been aware of the issues for thirty years, since I felt heat build-up around the switch for the garbage disposal, took the switch plate off, and found that there were scorch marks. I've routinely received information on this from my local fire department on this, and it's always been a subject of discussion in the neighborhood for any new owners or renters. if you buy a home with aluminum wiring in California, it's a required disclosure item.

It's remarkable that the owner on priuschat did not know about the aluminum wiring and had not long ago done copper pigtails on every switch and outlet and replacement of wiring whenever and wherever it was convenient.

It's also interesting to note that Toyota requires a dedicated 20 Amp circuit for the PIP, which this Prius owner neglected.

But then, there's a lot of cluelessness out there.

I helped a friend rewire his whole house, AL wiring is NOT that hard to replace.

If you have a charging station installed, they will have used copper.

I can see this only happening when people use the 15A charger provided by Nissan.

And the issue is not because of the electric car, as any outlet could have this happen. I've typically seen it in bathrooms and kitchens.

Al wiring - not good...

Aeolus said:

My home was built with aluminum wiring, and I've been aware of the issues for thirty years, since I felt heat build-up around the switch for the garbage disposal, took the switch plate off, and found that there were scorch marks.

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My rental house had same issue some years ago... disposer outlet connection failed. No harm, just quit.
And only one other outlet has been an issue so it now has pigtails.

I believe aluminum wire has improved with different alloys and stranding but I would always go copper if pulling wire in my house.

Aeolus said:

Argh!

My home was built with aluminum wiring, and I've been aware of the issues for thirty years, since I felt heat build-up around the switch for the garbage disposal, took the switch plate off, and found that there were scorch marks. I've routinely received information on this from my local fire department on this, and it's always been a subject of discussion in the neighborhood for any new owners or renters. if you buy a home with aluminum wiring in California, it's a required disclosure item.

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I realize this thread is history now, but I recently acquired a property with aluminum wiring that was not disclosed. Home inspector missed it too. Anyone can confirm that Al wiring is indeed a disclosure item in California?

Here in Florida you only have to disclose things you know about (duh).

How does a home inspector worth their salt miss that?

LTLFTcomposite said:

How does a home inspector worth their salt miss that?

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It depends on what the standards and requirements are for home inspectors.
Those vary widely.
When I used a home inspector 25 years ago in Georgia, the home inspection service was a useless waste of money.
They did NOT look at anything electrical.
I did a few quick checks myself and found 2 or 3 things that were wrong, and the inspector wasn't willing to even look at it.
I would have hoped things had improved since then, but sounds like it may be as bad as it was 25 years ago, if a home inspector missed aluminum wiring.