Do It Yourself: 240v from two 120v sources

eHelmholtz said:

Also, there's another company called streambrite that makes a similar device to the quick220 folks so quick220 maybe copyrighted but the implementation of our forum quick240 or easy240 should not be.

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QueenBee said:

Odd, not sure why anyone would buy that one over Quick220. This looks like a giant version of what someone would DIY. The Quick220 looks like an actual product. Obviously the real question is what is on the inside and the quality of the insides but...

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QueenBee said:

It has to have relays in it right even though I can't hear them?

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QueenBee said:

What is odd though is they warn against plugging it into a reverse polarity receptacle. With the proper relays setup this should just cause them not to close.

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QueenBee said:

Also why can't either of these companies understand what the real voltage in North America is?!

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QueenBee said:

So I wonder if they are infringing on the patent?

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QueenBee said:

TonyWilliams said:

I'm sure folks know that the "Quick220" is patented.

I guess we need to know when that runs out, and I'll offer a "safe" version.

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IANAL but not until Sep 4, 2018

https://www.google.com/patents/US5977658" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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eHelmholtz said:

Wow! A friend just pointed this out to me. Valery over at EMW is selling Y connectors, taking 2 120V outlets to make a 240V. This is not for the faint hearted and reminds me of his initial attempts at a less than $100 EVSE. This is from his website:

"Dual 'regular' 3-prong household plug - to convert 2 120V outlets in your house into a mighty 240v supply. You will have to provide your own extension cords to reach those two sockets (which will have to be on different 'branches' in your house wiring). You can get those extension cords pretty much anywhere (Home Depot in the US, etc). Just make sure you use heavy duty 12 or 10 gauge cords. With your purchase of this adapter, we will be supplying directions on how to identify which sockets sit on different branches. It is really easy. You can also test your circuit yourself before ordering to make sure it will work with this adapter. Note the breakers for your respective outlets that you would like to use, then in your electrical panel, measure the voltage between the wires that enter the respective breakers. You will see either 240V or 0V. If you see 240V, you can use those outlets to get 240V. Note that the outlets have to be regular 120V outlets, not the GFCI type (GFCI outlets normally have a test button and a small indication light)."

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Ingineer said:

That's easily the most dangerous EV accessory I've ever seen someone selling. Hope he's got good lawyers!

-Phil

eHelmholtz said:

Wow! A friend just pointed this out to me. Valery over at EMW is selling Y connectors, taking 2 120V outlets to make a 240V. This is not for the faint hearted and reminds me of his initial attempts at a less than $100 EVSE. This is from his website:

"Dual 'regular' 3-prong household plug - to convert 2 120V outlets in your house into a mighty 240v supply. You will have to provide your own extension cords to reach those two sockets (which will have to be on different 'branches' in your house wiring). You can get those extension cords pretty much anywhere (Home Depot in the US, etc). Just make sure you use heavy duty 12 or 10 gauge cords. With your purchase of this adapter, we will be supplying directions on how to identify which sockets sit on different branches. It is really easy. You can also test your circuit yourself before ordering to make sure it will work with this adapter. Note the breakers for your respective outlets that you would like to use, then in your electrical panel, measure the voltage between the wires that enter the respective breakers. You will see either 240V or 0V. If you see 240V, you can use those outlets to get 240V. Note that the outlets have to be regular 120V outlets, not the GFCI type (GFCI outlets normally have a test button and a small indication light)."

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johnrhansen said:

I wonder... has anyone ever tried building a combiner box without the safety relays, and actually testing what current is available on the disconnected plug? It might be possible that the evse turns off the moment it sees an anomaly in the power and will not pass the current through to the disconnected plug. Just a disclaimer.. I'm not saying the relays are not necessary, but I am curious exactly how much a danger there is without them.

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eHelmholtz said:

Wow! A friend just pointed this out to me. Valery over at EMW is selling Y connectors, taking 2 120V outlets to make a 240V. This is not for the faint hearted and reminds me of his initial attempts at a less than $100 EVSE.

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Cosmacelf said:

eHelmholtz said:

Wow! A friend just pointed this out to me. Valery over at EMW is selling Y connectors, taking 2 120V outlets to make a 240V. This is not for the faint hearted and reminds me of his initial attempts at a less than $100 EVSE.

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I emailed them about the danger of this last week. Haven't heard a reply. I notice they are still selling them. Sigh. I actually bought one of their Juiceboxes just to have a 15 kW EVSE. I'm a sucker for startup companies! Anyways, in hindsight, I can't say I'm too impressed by the Juicebox. Safety, reliability and careful design are not adjectives I would use with this company...

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Cosmacelf said:

johnrhansen said:

I wonder... has anyone ever tried building a combiner box without the safety relays, and actually testing what current is available on the disconnected plug? It might be possible that the evse turns off the moment it sees an anomaly in the power and will not pass the current through to the disconnected plug. Just a disclaimer.. I'm not saying the relays are not necessary, but I am curious exactly how much a danger there is without them.

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Well, I initially did do the simple combine the two 120V hots with no relays. I tested it with my Tesla UMC plugged into the car. The car/UMC (which is an EVSE) does indeed complete the circuit and when you unplug one of the plugs, you do indeed read 120V on the PLUG. ie. shock hazard. Annnd, in the interests of science, I did willfully touch the neutral/hot (or maybe it was the ground/hot) on the hot 120V plug and got a shock. I didn't leave my finger there long. And I didn't measure the current. But I can say that the car/UMC did not trip when I got shocked.

I've since built a unit with relays

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TonyWilliams said:

QueenBee said:

TonyWilliams said:

I'm sure folks know that the "Quick220" is patented.

I guess we need to know when that runs out, and I'll offer a "safe" version.

Click to expand...

IANAL but not until Sep 4, 2018

https://www.google.com/patents/US5977658" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Publication number US5977658 A
Publication type Grant
Application number US 09/148,577
Publication date Nov 2, 1999
Filing date Sep 4, 1998
Priority date Sep 8, 1997
Fee status Paid
Inventors Duane W. Hoole
Original Assignee Hoole; Duane W.
Export Citation BiBTeX, EndNote, RefMan
Patent Citations (7), Referenced by (2), Classifications (9), Legal Events (3)
External Links: USPTO, USPTO Assignment, Espacenet


U.S. Utility Patents that were still in force on June 7, 1995, and U.S. Utility Patents that issued on or after June 8, 1995 from applications filed before June 8, 1995 have terms that are the longer of two possibilities: 1) 17 years measured from their issue dates, or 2) 20 years measured from the earliest applicable application filing date. This "longer of two possibilities" option applies to many U.S. Utility Patents that bear patent numbers between 4,094,014 and 5,900,000.

Most U.S. Utility Patents that remain active today expire 20 years measured from the earliest filing date of an associated Utility Patent application. However, if the owner of a Utility Patent fails to pay any of three Maintenance Fees that are due 3.5, 7.5 and 11.5 years following the issue date of the Utility Patent, the Patent lapses unless the unpaid Maintenance Fee is paid during a six-month grace period together with a Late Payment Surcharge Fee.

- See more at: http://www.cosemindspring.com/Topics/Legal/Intellectual%20Property/When%20Do%20US%20Patents%20Expire.aspx#sthash.TjE3Rxcm.dpuf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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eHelmholtz said:

I just saw this on eBay. Would this count as copyright infringement?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/EV-Emergency-Charger-for-EVSE-240-Volt-box-adapts-2x120V-household-outlets-/390834769672?pt=Electric_Vehicle_Parts&hash=item5aff914f08&vxp=mtr" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He has three of these on sale right now.

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QueenBee said:

eHelmholtz said:

I just saw this on eBay. Would this count as copyright infringement?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/EV-Emergency-Charger-for-EVSE-240-Volt-box-adapts-2x120V-household-outlets-/390834769672?pt=Electric_Vehicle_Parts&hash=item5aff914f08&vxp=mtr" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He has three of these on sale right now.

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I was wondering the same thing. I also wonder if they are actually safe. He seems to indicate that you have test the outlets first which makes me think their design is unsafe, maybe no relays?

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nsayer said:

The quick240 or easy240 device is based on a schematic that was posted on the LEAF forum by Phil Sadow of EVSEuprade. This is a direct link to schematic that he has posted on his site:

The original thread on the LEAF forum is: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=4330" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Forgive me for jumping in on this late... but that schematic is not as safe as it can be.

What you want to do is use two DPST relays. One pole from each relay is wired in series on each hot line.

In other words, you must insure that BOTH relays are on before EITHER hot line gets any power.

If you don't do this, then you could wind up with asymmetric power on the 240 outlet. This is dangerous because you might think that there's no power because it won't work, but there would still be portions energized with 120 VAC potential to ground. Ouch!

Also, this circuit doesn't insure that you're pulling opposite phases. I believe the commercial products don't connect up the power until and unless both hots are energized and both are on opposite phases. I'm not 100% sure how they accomplish that. You could use a 208/240 volt coil DPST relay as a final step to disconnect both hot lines unless there's a 208/240 volt potential between them.

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nsayer said:

Here it is.

I didn't mount the lights yet. It's late. But I did test it, and it works.

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TonyWilliams said:

nsayer said:

Here it is.

I didn't mount the lights yet. It's late. But I did test it, and it works.

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As always, good work. Has anybody taken apart an actual "Quick 200" (the patented one) to see how they do it?

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nsayer said:

I didn't go through the entire thread, but rather came here from the myRav4 forum thread that referenced the schematic of the two-relay version.

I think this schematic is the minimum safe circuit:

The first two relays have 120 volt coils, the third has a 208/240 volt coil.

This insures that there is 120 volts between hot and neutral on each of the inputs AND that there's 208/240 between each hot before any hot line is connected up to the outlet.

This guards against asymmetric hot connection, same-phase connection, hot-neutral swaps and single breaker trips.

They're not present in this schematic, but a pair of neon indicators across each 120v coil and a third across the two outlet hots would complete the device.

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