Official Southern California Edison thread

fooljoe said:

- I guess I should've blasted the A/C or ran extension cords to my neighbors' houses for the last couple months. :lol:

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Yes be the super Santa this year and power the holiday light display for the whole street

fooljoe said:

You get a check only if you're a net producer in terms of kWh, but having a negative $ balance does not necessarily imply that you're a net producer.

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If they pay, is it a flat rate they use to calculate the amount?

Interesting info that SCE just posted (public) on its investor site.

http://www.edison.com/content/dam/eix/documents/investors/events-presentations/eix-november-2014-distributed-generation.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The average solar NEM subsidy is shown on slide 4, followed by an unusually clear layout of current and target (SCE-advocated) pricing tiers for residential on slide 5. SCE is apparently proposing a 20-year grandfathering of NEM tariffs for existing customers, and some new installations (subject to a cap that appears to be about 300% of the current volume of installed solar from slide 4).

Slide 6 shows the average in-/out-flows of power for solar customers; this might help clarify why the utilities feel a modest monthly fixed charge is not unreasonable for the "backup" service used by even a net-zero-energy solar customer.


Disclaimer: While I work for SCE, I don't work in/near the areas covered by this report, the report is publicly available information, and any opinions expressed here are solely mine, not SCE's. I own a Leaf but no solar energy.

Good to see the structure changing. The higher users have been subsidizing the low users for long enough. (residential)
Solar is leveling the play field.

fooljoe said:

You get a check only if you're a net producer in terms of kWh, but having a negative $ balance does not necessarily imply that you're a net producer. In fact with TOU and EV charging it's quite easy to have a negative balance at the end of the year despite consuming more than you produce, in which case all those stored up "credits" go to waste. At the end of my last annual cycle, I was a net consumer of about 4,900 kWh, yet my cumulative energy charge was -$70. ........snip......

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how many kWh's do you assign to the $70 ? Does it correspond to 25¢/kwh ? - 30¢/kWh ?
or what
.

I'm not sure I understand your question... That -$70 was the overall 12 month usage balance including consumption and production at all different TOU periods and tiers.

Got a letter today that rate plan TOU-D-TEV will be going away and there appears to be three optional TOU plans to choose in February 2015.

Has anyone evaluated these yet? Not sure I will like the new hours and rates.

Plan A & B show peak summer rate goes to 8p so it will be hard to keep the air conditioner off an additional 2 hours.
Super off-peak time is expanded that I like but we are moving from 9 cents to 11 cents.

A $16 minimum fee (plan B) lowers your Peak/Off-Peak rates but with solar I am thinking to stick with Plan A.

Plan T says it is popular with solar users but gives no super off-peak for EV charging. Can't see this working for me even though I am charging at work more.

Not sure what to do :|

Has anyone looked at these?

https://www.sce.com/wps/portal/home/residential/rates/residential-plan

smkettner said:

Got a letter today that rate plan TOU-D-TEV will be going away and there appears to be three optional TOU plans to choose in February 2015.

Has anyone evaluated these yet? Not sure I will like the new hours and rates.

Plan A & B show peak summer rate goes to 8p so it will be hard to keep the air conditioner off an additional 2 hours.
Super off-peak time is expanded that I like but we are moving from 9 cents to 11 cents.

A $16 minimum fee (plan B) lowers your Peak/Off-Peak rates but with solar I am thinking to stick with Plan A.

Plan T says it is popular with solar users but gives no super off-peak for EV charging. Can't see this working for me even though I am charging at work more.

Not sure what to do :|

Has anyone looked at these?

https://www.sce.com/wps/portal/home/residential/rates/residential-plan

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I didn't get the letter yet. Is it very clear that TOU-D-TEV is going away?
The reason I ask is that if you follow the link that you posted to the SCE site, it has a link to the EV rate plans and it still shows TOU-D-TEV available. This might be an error, ie that they haven't completely updated their pages yet. If this is an error, then does SCE plan to have EV rate plans going forward, and if so, what's the plan? I can see a bunch of us on the phone to SCE trying to get a straight answer on this stuff.

Another question I have is how does the grandfathering of existing customer net metering tariffs work with all of this? Do we get to keep our old rate plans (tariffs) if we've had them previously?

If indeed we have to choose one of the new rate plans, I would choose plan A. It avoids that evil
$16 monthly charge, and for my usage case, it probably wouldn't affect me much differently to how TOU-D-TEV affects me now. I'm currently ending each net metering year with a billing credit of a few hundred bucks that gets zeroed out at the end of the period. I'm guessing that plan A would work about the same for me, but with a smaller credit at the end of the year, which is insignificant to me since it gets canceled out anyway. If we get a second EV in the future, however, I'd likely be paying a bit at the end of my net metering year.

I got the same letter, and I called them but could not get an answer. They suggested I call both Solar and EV departments during the week and find out. The rate changes were primarily targeted for commercial users and the person was not sure why residential users got the letter.

Option A would be a better option for me, as my year end is negative even though my net usage is high. But the footnote says this option will be limited to a few.

Option B result in me paying $16 per month instead of the approx. $2 that I pay currently, so my out of pocket will increase by $144 per year.

The Off-Peak Savings Plan has no super off peak, however this may turn out to be the best under the circumstances, it will reduce the net negative amount, which we lose anyways, so long as it does not turn positive.

Just have to wait and find out.

sksingh said:

I got the same letter, and I called them but could not get an answer. They suggested I call both Solar and EV departments during the week and find out. The rate changes were primarily targeted for commercial users and the person was not sure why residential users got the letter.

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Sounds like the same kind of runaround I got back in 2010 when I was trying to figure out SCE's rate plans. From a customer perspective, departments at SCE appeared to be very disconnected from each other. Sad but not surprised to hear that you're being asked to call different groups to get a straight answer regarding a letter you were sent. They seem to need a customer facing group that has clear cut information, especially about something as critical as rates.

Man, this company sucks. Who can figure out these byzantine rate structures? I need a spreadsheet and a degree in accounting to figure this out. And why so many rate structures? All I know is I think the days of "beating the system" are over, where electric car/solar panel owners use the rates to their unique advantage. I have a $150 credit in my 12 month with SCE now. I'll probably be paying after this, and probably a lot. I mean, peak hours till 8 pm? Yikes!

I have NO idea which plan to pick. I mean, what's a "baseline allocation credit (per kwh) -.10"??? Are they paying just ten cents per kwh to put power back in the grid? I have no idea what to do.

Staying on the TOU-D-T seems to be the best option, if it is still available per the website. The two new programs do appear to be a crock of sh*t. Who do we complain to about this new development?

If you look at the demand curve at caiso.com I completely agree that from the utility perspective the peak pricing should be to 8p even 9p. Does not help the solar customer where power is dropping fast after 5p. Yes I think SCE has caught up with us.

TOU-D-T would be OK but I like to run the air overnight to cool the house and coast through the next day. Along with the EV that can be 70% of my usage going from 9 cents to 27 cents

Going to need to upgrade to a battery system to get some cool air during peak hours.

Getting solar installed has been long on my to-do list. Do these new rates make solar significantly less attractive? Btw, I'm currently on a dedicated EV TOU plan, is it affected as well by these changes?

smkettner said:

TOU-D-T would be OK but I like to run the air overnight to cool the house and coast through the next day. Along with the EV that can be 70% of my usage going from 9 cents to 27 cents
.

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Exactly, with TOU-D-T almost all of your off peak usage, including your car charging, would be at the Tier II rate of 26 to 27 cents. No super off peak rate at all. Expensive choice for car charging.

I got the letter too this afternoon. It seems clear that we will be transitioned away from TOU-D-TEV in February. They seem to be aware that I'm an EV household because the letter says "These new rate options may help to reduce your electric vehicle charging costs because they offer a longer off-peak period when electricity prices are lowest, and a shorter on-peak period when electricity prices are the highest." So maybe they're eliminating their special EV rate plans altogether ( I wonder what happens to the folks who have the dual meter plan EV1).

It also says " In February, you will be automatically transferred to one of the new TOU options. If you prefer, you may switch to another rate plan of your choice." I hope they're not planning to randomly assign customers to these plans without getting the customer's input and approval.

It does say that more information will be sent out in January.

Valdemar said:

Getting solar installed has been long on my to-do list. Do these new rates make solar significantly less attractive? Btw, I'm currently on a dedicated EV TOU plan, is it affected as well by these changes?

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Generally speaking, solar users benefit from high rates for on-peak power because we get a dollar-for-dollar credit for power that we generate during peak hours, and that can more than offset charges for power that we use at off peak times. The utilities want to minimize that advantage in three ways. They want to flatten rates so that we get less benefit from our production during peak times. And they want to add a flat monthly charge to cover the cost of our use of the grid. And apparently, they've figured out that by extending peak hours until 8 pm from the current 6 pm, they can recoup some of the revenue for residential air conditioning usage that late in the evening without giving solar customers a benefit, because our solar generation slacks off by about 6 pm.

The B plan includes a $16 monthly grid use fee. The A plan extends peak rates until 8 pm. And I believe that all three plans have flatter rates which minimize the advantage of our high retail credits for our on-peak power generation. Plan T has very high off-peak Tier II rates which are very expensive for EV charging and which doesn't encourage EV charging late at night, which seems counter productive to even SCE's interests.

As to whether this change should discourage you from going solar, I hope not. But it appears that solar may be at least somewhat less attractive than it was before. The degree to which you'll be affected will depend on a lot of factors, including how much you use air conditioning and electric cooking or other high power uses during peak times, the cost and efficiency of your solar power system, and which of the new rate plans you can get into. The SCE web site says that A and B will be available in limited quantity.

As far as whether you'll be affected by this, it's not completely clear yet. Maybe they're only forcing solar customers away from TOU-D-TEV. Please let us know if you get a letter.

We have not (yet?) installed solar on our home largely because our house is in a gentle ravine with tall pine trees upslope from us on both sides. The trees to the west of us do a good job of blocking the late afternoon and evening sun. We could still get a few hours of solar production per day, primarily mid morning through early afternoon, with summertime gaps caused by deciduous oaks. Unfortunately, the new SCE rates make it even harder to justify on the basis of an eventual financial payback. Also, our available roof area is limited. On the plus side, we've never needed air conditioning.

However, with the shift in peak hours to later in the day and the rising rates, I'm now contemplating switching from the standard residential rate schedule (D) to one of the new TOU plans. Our total monthly usage has recently hovered between 400-500 kWh, though it's usually a bit higher than that during the winter months. December's bill was $95 for 518 kWh (average of $0.184/kWh - winter baseline is 322 kWh). Our heavily used computers are more efficient than they used to be, and the LEAF can be charged primarily at night with the caveat that afternoon and evening top-offs are needed a few times per month due to the LEAF's limited range.

At this point I'd be inclined to go with 'A', though it would be nice to be able to mine the data from SCE's smart meter on our home. With 'B', "off peak" and "peak" rates are reduced by about $0.06/kWh. If 300 kWh are used outside of "super off peak" hours, that's a savings of $18, offset by the $16 minimum. Probably not worth it unless one's daytime needs are greater.

For us, rather than installing solar, the most cost effective option might be to buy 5+ kWh of battery capacity for the house and mostly avoid drawing from the grid during the day. We could charge the batteries at night when there's potentially more surplus wind power on the grid and the rates are low.

Or just continue as before on Schedule D and not think about it too much...

A little more angle to the west for solar panels would also help capture late day sun. Morning sun does not pay as well anymore.

There might be a saving grace. After listing all the new TOU rate structures, it states:

Have an Electric Car, or Thinking About Getting One?
If you have an electric car, a TOU rate plan for electric vehicles might ideal for you.

The link takes you to the current TOU-EV rates. So either we are staying at the same rate or they forgot to take out that link or update the new prices.

Any thoughts?

Here's the link:
https://www.sce.com/wps/portal/home...ionGrp2-1?ecid=van_touoptions/accordionGrp1-1

I think SCE simply forgot to take out the link to the current TOU-EV rates which are being phased out.

Tilting solar panels a bit to the west sounds like a good plan for capturing late afternoon sun, but it wouldn't help us because of the tall trees and hill to our west.

We do own some vacant land about a mile away, on a west-facing hillside. It would be nice if SCE allowed us to install panels there, connect them to the grid, and offset our home usage.