All Blink installs on hold because of LADWP???

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hvera

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Joined
Feb 1, 2011
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Our Blink was supposed to be installed on 5/12. But today (5/5) we got a call from Southwest Electric, canceling our install. They said all Blink installs are on hold because LADWP is thinking of mandating a second meter. I knew that they wanted people to get second meters, but the whole "have to" bit is news to me. Anyone else hear or experience this?

I am going to call LADWP and ECOtality tomorrow.
 
hvera said:
Our Blink was supposed to be installed on 5/12. But today (5/5) we got a call from Southwest Electric, canceling our install. They said all Blink installs are on hold because LADWP is thinking of mandating a second meter. I knew that they wanted people to get second meters, but the whole "have to" bit is news to me. Anyone else hear or experience this?

I am going to call LADWP and ECOtality tomorrow.
Click to expand...

I was told the same by Boardwalk Electric. Afraid what this means regarding solar electric.
 
Here is response from my contact at Ecotality in response to my question as to whether or not she has heard anything about this:

"I have. LADWP & Ecotality are working together to establish the program together regarding a TOU and/or the 2nd meter procedures. Since I don’t have anything conclusive to advise you at this time regarding definitive procedures, I’d like to hold off replying.

If you’d like to send me a reminder email by this time next week, the procedures should be established by then."
 
i am ladwp on whole house TOU meter and NO second meter.
The second meter is for the rebate program or if you want your EVSE on a separate service.
 
dlich18 said:
I know that DWP does require a SEPARATE meter to qualify for their recently announced $2,000 rebate (http://www.ladwp.com/ladwp/cms/ladwp002056.jsp). But their material clearly permits a whole-house time of use meter to qualify for the discount for after-hours EV charging. See http://www.ladwp.com/ladwp/cms/ladwp013831.pdf.

I have been working with someone at Ecotality, and will see if she know anything about this.
Click to expand...

I was aware of the same thing; that you could choose a second meter or go with whole-house TOU. I was also aware of the 2nd meter requirement for the $2k rebate. The notion of possibly mandating the 2nd meter, thus leading to putting things on hold was a surprise.

I appreciate your forwarding this to ECOtality and posting the response. Hopefully there will be an upside, but I will be a pessimist and presume not.

I hope this gets resolved in time for my leaf.
 
I was called by SunWest on Thursday saying essentially the same thing (my was to be a Monday install - grrrr!). Today I called the EV line at LADWP (866-484-0433) and spoke to a Raymond Harper who told me that the information was in error (and that he'd received numerous other calls over the past two days as well, probably from you guys :lol: ). You only need a second meter if you'll be signing up for Time-Of-Use billing, or if you are participating in the City's no-charge EVSE program (or were collecting any LADWP incentives). When I told I would not be using TOU because I have sufficient capacity in my solar array to power my EV, he assured me that a second meter would not be necessary. He seemed quite knowledgeable about the rules, so I trust his comments.

HOWEVER, he also said that a pre-installation inspection by LADWP is required. I was not made aware of this by SunWest. I had to call the "ESR" group of LADWP at (213) 367-8036 to schedule an appointment. Apparently they claim to be doing them within 48 hours, so that's a good thing.

I then called Valerie at ECOtality who said that this information was different from what she'd heard and would try to independently verify it with her people. I have not yet heard back from her. Hopefully Monday...

That's what I know. Hopefully this will get straightened out soon and we can go back to waiting. And waiting And wai...zzzzzz.....
 
Yep, I spoke with Mr. Harper and got the same basic response; the only exception being that you don't have to get an inspection, but they recommend it.

I also made calls to SunWest and ECOtality, but was unable to connect.
 
I had my Ecotality install last Weds (5/4) and then called LA DWP to get the TOU meter. I was told they would come within 48 hours to do an inspection/evaluation of the house and neighborhood. They finally called this morning (5 days later) and said they'd be out tomorrow to check for placement of the 2nd meter and discuss options. They seemed to be aware that the 2nd meter isn't mandatory but they do appear to be pushing people to get them. I don't want it the 2nd meter, just the whole-house TOU. The Blink is already in and the car has been charging the last few days so hopefully their neighborhood inspection doesn't reveal any problems. I don't want to be the one on the block causing power outages all summer.
 
I have been told that LADWP and ECOtality continue to have "high-level talks" to hash out better coordination of the installs. No word on when they will announce anything.

In the meantime, I had Walter from LADWP come out and perform a 2nd meter check yesterday, 5/11. My Blink was supposed to be installed today. I need to get new quotes to see if the 2nd meter is worth the hassle/expense/ugliness.

UPDATE: LADWP and ECOtality are supposed to be clearing things up today.
 
I checked in with Valerie at ECOtality today to see if anything more had been determined. She replied:

It is still my understanding a 2nd meter for all LADWP customers will be a requirement in order to participate within the EV Project.

You may contact the LADWP, Walter Smith, at 213/367-8036 to set up a home assessment.

I would also recommend a visit to their website at;
http://www.ladwp.com/ladwp/cms/ladwp002056.jsp

The link I provided will take you straight into the rebate area.
Click to expand...

I replied to her:

There seems to be a lot of confusion in the community about this. It is understood that a 2nd meter is required for the LADWP rebate program, to which you refer. But that does not appear to be a requirement for those not applying for the LADWP rebate, as described in Option 2 (whole-house time of use rather than separate meter) at http://www.ladwp.com/ladwp/cms/ladwp014298.jsp. Has there been a change in this published policy?
Click to expand...

I'm concerned because I have a "week of May 30" estimate delivery and still no EVSE. The information on the LADWP website appears clear - a separate meter is required for the LADWP rebate, but a single "whole house" time-of-use meter is all that is required for the discounted rate.

Anyone else have any different info? Are installations still on hold?? :?
 
I have to chuckle when I read this. Here, I'm forbidden to have a second meter installed because "the fire department might not be able to tell what goes to which meter" (and apparently aren't smart enough to kill them both if the situation occurred).
 
OK Folks. I just had a lengthy conversation with Walter Smith at LADWP, and I believe I now understand the situation (By the way, Mr. Smith sounds like a very nice, helpful guy and very willing to clear up the confusion that has existed (213) 367-8036).

First - there has been a major change in the policy regarding separate meter for all EVProject participants in the LADWP service area. It is very important that everyone affected by this be aware of the changes.

When the City of LA adopted the $2,000 rebate program for out-of-pocket costs as of May 1, it also mandated that in order to be entitled to either the LADWP rebate and/or the EV Project incentive, you must have a separate meter for the EVSE. This apparently affects everyone who did not have the EVSE installed before the policy change, thus it is retroactive to EV Project participants if they have not had the EVSE installed already.

Second - the LADWP rebate can, apparently, be used in addition to the EV Project incentive. Thus, the additional cost of the second meter may be entirely covered by the LADWP rebate. I have overhead service from LADWP instead of underground. Therefore, the installation of the 2nd meter is much easier and should be entirely covered by the LADWP rebate (in fact, according to Walter, even the $140 I agreed to pay over the EV Project incentive amount should be covered). It is much more expensive to add the separate meter if you have underground service. In fact, DWP alone charges $1,400 to install the second underground service. Fortunately, I am not in that situation.

Therefore, LADWP is now coming out to do a new assessment and drawing of where the 2nd panel and meter should be located. Next, the contractor designated by ECOtality will be able to come out and place the 2nd panel and run the circuit to the garage and the Blink. Then, the City inspector will approve the installation. Then LADWP will come out and set the new 2nd meter which will power up the Blink.

Long story short - I should actually come out better in the end, since the LADWP rebate will cover the portion of the EV Project install I agreed to pay.
 
dlich18 said:
OK Folks. I just had a lengthy conversation with Walter Smith at LADWP, and I believe I now understand the situation (By the way, Mr. Smith sounds like a very nice, helpful guy and very willing to clear up the confusion that has existed (213) 367-8036).

First - there has been a major change in the policy regarding separate meter for all EVProject participants in the LADWP service area. It is very important that everyone affected by this be aware of the changes.

When the City of LA adopted the $2,000 rebate program for out-of-pocket costs as of May 1, it also mandated that in order to be entitled to either the LADWP rebate and/or the EV Project incentive, you must have a separate meter for the EVSE. This apparently affects everyone who did not have the EVSE installed before the policy change, thus it is retroactive to EV Project participants if they have not had the EVSE installed already.

Second - the LADWP rebate can, apparently, be used in addition to the EV Project incentive. Thus, the additional cost of the second meter may be entirely covered by the LADWP rebate. I have overhead service from LADWP instead of underground. Therefore, the installation of the 2nd meter is much easier and should be entirely covered by the LADWP rebate (in fact, according to Walter, even the $140 I agreed to pay over the EV Project incentive amount should be covered). It is much more expensive to add the separate meter if you have underground service. In fact, DWP alone charges $1,400 to install the second underground service. Fortunately, I am not in that situation.

Therefore, LADWP is now coming out to do a new assessment and drawing of where the 2nd panel and meter should be located. Next, the contractor designated by ECOtality will be able to come out and place the 2nd panel and run the circuit to the garage and the Blink. Then, the City inspector will approve the installation. Then LADWP will come out and set the new 2nd meter which will power up the Blink.

Long story short - I should actually come out better in the end, since the LADWP rebate will cover the portion of the EV Project install I agreed to pay.
Click to expand...

so what do you have at your place after all this?
and this is NOT better if you have solar TOU, as the two meters are separate services and DONT offset each other. All that sunpower cannot be used against car charging.
 
thankyouOB said:
so what do you have at your place after all this?
and this is NOT better if you have solar TOU, as the two meters are separate services and DONT offset each other. All that sunpower cannot be used against car charging.
Click to expand...

Well, I didn't think of that - I tried to get solar but don't have enough southwest facing roof area. I just had a whole-house time-of-use meter installed because that was adequate under the old policy - that may now not work out for me.
 
thankyouOB said:
and this is NOT better if you have solar TOU, as the two meters are separate services and DONT offset each other. All that sunpower cannot be used against car charging.
Click to expand...

Cool! Now I can keep giving LADWP my excess solar production, pay for the electricity I use for the Leaf and pay $8/month for the extra meter. Great business model!
 
I'm glad I had my EV Project charger installed BEFORE the idiots at LADWP and our lame-brained mayor came up with this scheme! I have underground utilities and the cost would be staggering.

FYI, the scheme will NOT pay for the install of a second EVSE TOU meter after the fact, for those who might be considering it...

91040 said:
thankyouOB said:
and this is NOT better if you have solar TOU, as the two meters are separate services and DONT offset each other. All that sunpower cannot be used against car charging.
Click to expand...
Cool! Now I can keep giving LADWP my excess solar production, pay for the electricity I use for the Leaf and pay $8/month for the extra meter. Great business model!
Click to expand...
 
mogur said:
I'm glad I had my EV Project charger installed BEFORE the idiots at LADWP and our lame-brained mayor came up with this scheme! I have underground utilities and the cost would be staggering.
Click to expand...
Tom, you're not just glad, your bloody LUCKY! I'm in exactly that situation (underground utilities) and they started this mess three days before my EVSE was due to be installed.

And I have solar. And I'm a November order who's been "skipped over".

I'm getting close to throwing in the towel. I'm not sure that the fight is worth it anymore.
 
In preparation for a discussion of Electric Vehicles at a public conference tomorrow, I had a talk today with LADWP about the intersection of LADWP and EVProject--especially the second-meter issue.

(conference details here
http://www.jas-socal.org/Default.aspx?pageId=824060&eventId=310781&EventViewMode=EventDetails)


It is very clear from LADWP that you do NOT have to have a second meter installed to be part of the EVProject.
You do need it if you want:
LADWP to pay for any overage (up to 2k) on the EVProject install
or
to get the 2.5-cent discount IF the rest of your house is on regular rate.

You are STILL eligible for 2.5-cent discount if you are on whole house TOU.

I asked these questions three different ways.

Additionally, LADWP is aware of the underground utility cost issue for second meters and is working on a solution that will not necessitate the high excess costs for doing the second meter. That solution requires testing and may take two months--i guess that is optimistic.

I read what dlich posted but based on my discussions, you do NOT need the second meter to be in EVProject.
 

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