Challenges in getting a LEAF - looking for help!

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lucgallant

Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2017
Messages
10
Hi guys,

about a month ago I decided to seriously start looking at Electric Vehicles. This whole thread may seem petty compared to the die hards that have been into it for years I understand.... :D I live in Timmins, Ontario, in Canada. It's up in Northern Ontario where the winter lasts 6 months of the year at least, getting down to -35C. Timmins only has 1 or 2 EVs and so it's pretty new here. It's a truck town you could say.

Essentially only the Nissan and GM dealers are licensed to sell electric vehicles in the area. GM has no availability on Bolts until the new year.

I called up and subsequently went in to the Nissan dealership. I immediately got a commitment that they could "definitely" get a LEAF within 5-10 days by doing a dealer trade from another dealer. Anyway it took me about 2 weeks to finally get the sales guy to put all the items on the quote that I was looking for (Ontario $14k incentive, our trade-in, VPP pricing, etc).

Finally, with everything on the quote, I committed to buy. He says he's going to call the other dealers to secure a vehicle. 3 days goes by, he finally calls back to admit that 7-8 dealers were contacted and none will release their vehicles. He says that they're such a promotional/advertisement material that they don't want to let them go. He later suggests I try and buy from them directly.

In the meantime, I called a dealer down in Toronto (Avenue Nissan) to ask them if I could buy one of the two LEAFs they have on the lot, and they flat out told me that they would not sell me the vehicle as they would end up losing all future potential service on the vehicle. Two weeks after this call, that same LEAF is still sitting in their inventory!

So after the dealer trade fell through, the salesman tells me he can have one built. I ask him if they are still in production, and tell him I'm reluctant to commit to a build because I've had builds in the past during this time of year (mid to late summer) fall through as the factories are already retooling. He tells me he understands, not to worry, that they are still being built. I reluctantly agree to have one built. I put a $500 CAD deposit, and he says he'll send me the bill of sale and build date confirmation shortly. 2 days later, no bill of sale and no delivery date, and I've been checking in throughout. I get a bit more adamant, and he finally calls me back, admitting that the 2017 LEAF production run is actually over (or ending imminently), and that I can shift my deposit to a 2018, which will get built in September and ship in December.

Now we all know that they is no MSRP published for the 2018 and based on what I can tell they can't be ordered before they're officially released September 5th. I ask him if price will change, he says he doesn't think it will, that it didn't change between 2016 and 2017. So obviously he's oblivious to the complete model redesign that's listed clearly on the Nissan site, with the doubling of range etc... So I can't really believe anything I hear at this point.

My question to everyone:

1) Any suggestions on who to contact at Nissan Corporate to maybe get traction on this? It's pretty frustrating being denied product purchase because of geography, knowing there is stock available. Especially knowing that these dealers have probably had these LEAFs there for months. I do have a call in with Nissan Customer Support but it's only at the first level and we all know how these things can go.
2) Any idea when the 2017 builds ended? I'm curious how obvious an item this was when the new vehicle was committed to me by the dealer.
3) Is there anything at all on the 2018 LEAF in terms of price or build dates? I see the increased range and single pedal driving etc...

Anyway any help that could be provided would be awesome. Thanks!

Luc
 
Don't bother with trying to buy a 2017 Leaf if they are refusing to sell them to you. First, you cant force anyone to sell you something... Secondly, Since the new 2018s are coming soon, wait and buy an 18.... Very Simple...
 
Well, my issue with that is, with the 2017 LEAF priced at $39k, I am worried what the 2018 will be priced at. With the extra 30 kWh of battery capacity, I'm sure it's price will jump $5k easily, pushing me to a price I don't really want to pay. Plus, after several failed promises, I really question the dealer's ability to deliver on future promises...
 
My gut feel is that the price will not significantly change and you will be a happy 2018 leaf owner. There are dealers out here clearing out SVs for 33 minus incentives so careful on that 39k thing. Seems high.

Good luck. Hope it works out for you.

J and A.
 
Thanks doe the response. The 39K I'm talking about is an SV, I'm surprised to hear the 33K for an SV in BC but it's definitely making second think things. On a lease the dealer won't go very much below MSRP and the buyback isn't super either.

I guess there's the 3.5K rebate for buying case which could lower to day 35.5K.

Anyway ya the 2018 is seeming like more of a reality but I'd really rather take ownership of one of these midsummer versus mid winter...
 
The 2018 Leaf isn't going to get "built in September." It can be ordered then, will be built beginning in November or December, but might not get delivered to you until Spring.
 
paulgipe said:
Luc, you need to tell us how you plan to use the car. I don't think the current Leaf is a good fit for where you live. Wait for the 2018.

Thanks for the response. Timmins is a town that is about 10 km across with not much surrounding it. The nearest likely "out of town" trip would be at least 300 km away. We fully have accepted that the LEAF would be solely for my wife to commute to and from work, which is a 20 km round trip. Unless we forget to plug in range anxiety shouldn't really be an issue. We've got a second gas powered vehicle which we would use for out of town trips. So, for us, the current gen LEAF would work. I think even with the 2018, with the increased range, I wouldn't be very confident taking the long out of town trips except maybe in the summer or shoulder season when A/C use could be minimized. I definitely would never do it in the winter.

As for the comment re: delivery times from LeftieBiker, this is the kind of feedback I was looking for. After the last 3 weeks dealing with the sales guy at the dealership, I really get the feeling that they'll say anything just to continue discussions (I know this is not unique to my situation...). Unless they can provide something from Nissan directly in writing that claims a December delivery, I will have a very hard time putting any stock into it. The commitments seems a bit one sided - it's like the $500 deposit they had me put binds me to complete the sale but does not seem to do anything for them when they don't follow through.

Even if Nissan Canada can get me a 2017 from another dealer, I'm definitely very intrigued to see what the 2018 has to offer, I'm just concerned about price. I think if the price does go up any, I'll probably be looking at the Bolt more seriously, because that dealership has been much more direct and honest than the Nissan one.
 
Nissan has been claiming that they will hold the MSRPs about where they are now for the 2018 Leaf. You might get one in December, but given your remote location I wouldn't count on it. I too would like to get one then, but think January is more likely for New York.
 
lucgallant said:
With the extra 30 kWh of battery capacity, I'm sure it's price will jump $5k

If Nissan offered a 60 kWh battery for an extra $5k as an option I would surely jump on it as i am sure many others would.
Source ?
 
Do you have access to a pickup/van/large SUV and a car trailer (or can rent the latter)? If so, and you don't mind taking a trip down to Toronto or some other major city, there's nothing from stopping you from doing just that, buying a Leaf, and trailering it back. Many people particularly during the first few years of the Leaf have done just that, and still do so with "compliance" EV's like the Toyota RAV 4 EV (no longer sold), VW eGolf, and Fiat 500e.

The excuse about losing service business is just a bunch of crock. First of all, there is little to service on the car; only the annual battery check as part of the warranty requirement. Second, in a major urban center there are going to be multiple dealers and there's no guarantee you'll get it serviced where you bought it.

You mentioned dealers in Toronto; have you tried Sudbury or Sault Ste. Marie? They're going to be closer. But if you're willing to go all the way to the GTA you might as well try Ottawa and even Montreal as well.
 
paulgipe said:
Luc,
Why not simply buy a used one? Québec is importing a bunch. Delivery to Timmins won't be cheap. Maybe Shani Twain can get you one.;)

Oaul

hahah... The main reason is I want the province's $14000 rebate which I'm unable to get on a used one. In fact the dealer here has a 2014 LEAF SL with 8400 km, they still want $32000 for it. But, I can get a brand new SL, for like $28k with the rebate.
 
ElectricEddy said:
lucgallant said:
With the extra 30 kWh of battery capacity, I'm sure it's price will jump $5k

If Nissan offered a 60 kWh battery for an extra $5k as an option I would surely jump on it as i am sure many others would.
Source ?

I read in many places the jump to a 60 kWh battery, which also seems clear given the new speculated Bolt like range.

The $5k I'm estimating as a minimum jump only and based on my thoughts only. Based on the Bolt's pricing it would be quite something to have it be only the $5k. The Bolt, with a 60 kWh battery, has a starting MSRP of $42k, versus $33k of the LEAF...
 
RonDawg said:
Do you have access to a pickup/van/large SUV and a car trailer (or can rent the latter)? If so, and you don't mind taking a trip down to Toronto or some other major city, there's nothing from stopping you from doing just that, buying a Leaf, and trailering it back. Many people particularly during the first few years of the Leaf have done just that, and still do so with "compliance" EV's like the Toyota RAV 4 EV (no longer sold), VW eGolf, and Fiat 500e.

The excuse about losing service business is just a bunch of crock. First of all, there is little to service on the car; only the annual battery check as part of the warranty requirement. Second, in a major urban center there are going to be multiple dealers and there's no guarantee you'll get it serviced where you bought it.

You mentioned dealers in Toronto; have you tried Sudbury or Sault Ste. Marie? They're going to be closer. But if you're willing to go all the way to the GTA you might as well try Ottawa and even Montreal as well.

I do have a pickup and think I could find a trailer decently easily. It's the two day trip that turns me off, especially with a new baby around. For the ~$800 in shipping it would have been a lot cleaner. But in any case, the guy (Sales Manager) at Avenue Nissan was extremely clear, they were not selling me this car. I think that yes, I should be able to find another in another city that will. Sudbury and North Bay are both not EV certified, btw.

The other thing I'm thinking is, if the 8 dealerships that my dealer called to get a dealer trade, wouldn't let the vehicle go, I have a hard time seeing how they're fine with me just coming to pick it up. What would be the reasoning in not letting it go to the dealer? Unless there's history there or something.

I think that would be a next step, is asking my dealer for the list of dealers that have them, and call myself. It just stings to have to literally beg to spend your $40k.
 
lucgallant said:
paulgipe said:
Luc,
Why not simply buy a used one? Québec is importing a bunch. Delivery to Timmins won't be cheap. Maybe Shani Twain can get you one.;)

Oaul

hahah... The main reason is I want the province's $14000 rebate which I'm unable to get on a used one. In fact the dealer here has a 2014 LEAF SL with 8400 km, they still want $32000 for it. But, I can get a brand new SL, for like $28k with the rebate.


$32000 for a SL 2014! Ridiculous.

3 months ago, I bought a SL 2015 with 12,500 km at Trois-Rivières for $22,500 before taxes from a Honda dealer. Car is in perfect condition (4 snow tires included). Very happy with it.
I find it on autohebdo.net. It was also advertised on Kijiji.com and lespac.com. Very useful to consult these sites to compare prices of used cars.
 
Wow!

And no quote my local dealer.... "you'll be interested, it is substantially discounted."

Thanks for your response very eye opening.

Luc
 
To OP, get on Auto trader.ca and use the filters to search for 2013/2014 Leafs under 15k within 750km of your Timmins postal code. I found tons in Quebec in the $11000 - $15000 range.

You could probably hire a local tow shop to transport the Leaf for you for less than $1000
 
lucgallant said:
I read in many places the jump to a 60 kWh battery, which also seems clear given the new speculated Bolt like range.
I suppose you can read almost anything someplace. The truth, however, is that the 2018 Leaf will have a 40 kwh battery according to reliable early announcements. The msrp is not yet known but Nissan has certainly said a great deal about maintaining a substantially lower entry level price than the Bolt (60 kwh) or the Tesla 3 (60 kwh with 75 kwh option).
 
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