used 2013 Leaf, 23K and 12 bars

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Joined
Feb 11, 2017
Messages
15
Location
San Diego, CA
Hi everyone. I just became a new leaf owner and bought a 2013 SL leaf with all the bells and whistles for $10,250. It has about 23,500 miles and is perfect condition. When I picked it up It displayed 12 bars charge and 12 capacity. I had to charge it to 80% once to get home and one more time to 80% a day later. I then decided to charge it to 100% one more time and let it settle for about 4 hrs on the charger. It now says 76 miles. I know I need to get Leafspy and I'm looking into which adapter to order for my Samsung. Any recommendations?

But my real question is does it seem reasonable that with the original battery and 23K the battery should have 12 bars of capacity? This car was originally purchased in SoCal and one owner before me and was a lease. The owner really kept it looking like new. But I'm suspecting that someone might have done a reset for the battery in the software (meant for a new battery). I know this is the original battery. And 76 miles does seem a bit low for a full charge but I also realize that this "estimate" is not all that great. Until I get Leafspy I guess I won't know but I do have to take it in to my local dealer to get it updated for the AT&T 3G network for $200. so maybe I can talk them into checking the battery for me.
 
We can only make assumptions, and those will not help you. The best thing to do is expect a bar to drop because of the age of the pack, and then you may have an 11-bar to work with. That, IMO, will be the best case scenario. You probably paid on the high end for a '13, but if you like it, you like it. You won't be judged by me for making that purchase.

Yes, the dealerships can reset the BMS, so when you learn about the car and the battery over the next year, you can then educate your friends who plan to buy a Leaf.
 
It has about 23,500 miles and is perfect condition. When I picked it up It displayed 12 bars charge and 12 capacity. I had to charge it to 80% once to get home and one more time to 80% a day later. I then decided to charge it to 80% one more time and let it settle for about 4 hrs on the charger. It now says 76 miles. I know I need to get Leafspy and I'm looking into which adapter to order for my Samsung. Any recommendations?

Someone will post a recommendations for a BT port reader soon. (Mine is older and may not still be available.) In the meantime, don't be afraid to charge the car to 100% in cool temps, and right before use. Charging a 2013 to 80% does do some equalization, but I suspect you have to do a full 100% charge to get the pack fully balanced. As for a range estimate of 76 miles at 80% - that's actually good. When you charge to 100% you should see roughly 92 miles on the Guess O Meter.
 
If the car was manufactured 4/13 or later (look at the door jam label), then it is reasonable to expect the results you have. If the car was manufactured 3/13 or earlier, I would be suspicious of a BMS reset on a car showing 12 bars unless it has been in a cool climate.

The ELM327 Bluetooth dongles are inexpensive and seem to work well. It does have to be a version 1.5 adapter, as the version 2.1 adapters will not work with LeafSpy. I would also recommend one of the OBD extension cords with an on/off switch. That will let you keep it attached all the time, but prevent running the 12v battery down by turning it off when not in use.
 
My 2013 has about 26K miles and is at 12 bars. I'm in a cooler climate than SoCal, but I don't see what you have as unexpected.
 
Here's another situation where you worry when things are bad, and also, you worry when things are good...

If you charged to 80% and are getting 72 miles GOM, then you are good. A good battery should be estimating about 1 mile of range for every 1% of charge. I have a 2015 with 30K miles, and I still have a SOH (State of Health) of 100% on my battery. They (batteries) do not deteriorate that quickly.

Count your blessings and be happy.
 
baustin said:
If the car was manufactured 4/13 or later (look at the door jam label), then it is reasonable to expect the results you have. If the car was manufactured 3/13 or earlier, I would be suspicious of a BMS reset on a car showing 12 bars unless it has been in a cool climate.

The ELM327 Bluetooth dongles are inexpensive and seem to work well. It does have to be a version 1.5 adapter, as the version 2.1 adapters will not work with LeafSpy. I would also recommend one of the OBD extension cords with an on/off switch. That will let you keep it attached all the time, but prevent running the 12v battery down by turning it off when not in use.

It was built 9/13. I corrected my original post. I got 76 miles with a 100% charge NOT an 80% charge...sorry to mislead. Driving it around a bit today and averaging 4.8 miles/ kW-hr and traveled 46.8 miles. Now says about 32 miles left and maybe 6 bars or so.

I'll be glad when I get Leafspy and can check the battery capacity. It doesn't seem like it has 12 bars. If it's about to lose 1 bar then I understand that's about 15% capacity loss. Does this mean about 20 kw-hr from 24 (approximate)? If so and driving the way I have shouldn't it be showing my closer to 100 miles with a full charge? I understand that some of these numbers are approximations and predictions by the system based on past driving. Again Leafspy should help.

So is $10,250. really too much for an SL with leather, camera, dimming mirror, bose NAV, solar cell and in nearly perfect condition? Oh and the body doesn't even have one door ding. I could have had another similar one for about $1K less but it really looked "used" inside and out. The leather and trim inside this one doesn't even have a single scratch that I could find. Someone really took good care of it. I've looked around here in San Diego and this seems to be the going price for this car or maybe a bit more. The S can be had for several thousand less of course.
 
powersurge said:
Here's another situation where you worry when things are bad, and also, you worry when things are good...

If you charged to 80% and are getting 72 miles GOM, then you are good. A good battery should be estimating about 1 mile of range for every 1% of charge. I have a 2015 with 30K miles, and I still have a SOH (State of Health) of 100% on my battery. They (batteries) do not deteriorate that quickly.

Count your blessings and be happy.

I had to correct my post because that was 76 and 100% charge. But yes I am happy even if the battery was reset, lol. I had a 2004 Prius for 10 years and gave it to my wife's son. At about 120 k miles and 13 years (took ownership late 2003) it needed a new battery. I bought it for him, $2700. I bought a 2013 Subaru Crosstrek (27-33 mpg, not bad) which I really like a lot for going to the desert but miss being more eco minded. Since I've had a PV system for 11 years now and have about 120 kw-hr excess each month, I decided to buy the Leaf. My neighbor sort of inspired me with his new Kia, lol.

SDGE just announced a yearly credit of $50-100. for EV and plug in owners that will go until 2020 so I'll be getting that too. Now that I've retired, I only drive about 450 miles/month and my wife drives 150 miles/month. Most of it is just short trips to lunch, home depot, guitar center, etc. So the leaf is ideal and I'm keeping the Subaru for longer trips. It was either this or a Prius Prime and I think this is going to be a lot better for me than a brand new car right now.
 
It was built 9/13. I corrected my original post. I got 76 miles with a 100% charge NOT an 80% charge...sorry to mislead. Driving it around a bit today and averaging 4.8 miles/ kW-hr and traveled 46.8 miles. Now says about 32 miles left and maybe 6 bars or so.

The Guess o Meter tends to become more accurate during a trip, especially a typical trip, so I'd say you have a real 12 bars there, with almost 80 miles of range. One of the things that is misleading is that quite a bit of range is on the "bottom" of the gauge, where people tend to stop and recharge, thinking they are about to run out of juice. Try driving it until you get the first Low Battery Warning, at about 18% charge remaining, and see how many estimated miles are left, and how far you've gone. Also, I suggest you switch the dash display to State of Charge (SOC) displayed, as that is much more helpful than the bars for most people. It is fine to drive until you see that first LBW, at which point you'll still have more than 10 miles of range to get home. The second LBW comes with about 8 miles of range remaining, and that one should be what you want to try to avoid, just because it's cutting it closer. Once you have LeafSpy you'll be able to use every bit of available range when needed, but until then use the first LBW, or about 18% remaining, as the most charge you want to use.
 
LeftieBiker said:
It was built 9/13. I corrected my original post. I got 76 miles with a 100% charge NOT an 80% charge...sorry to mislead. Driving it around a bit today and averaging 4.8 miles/ kW-hr and traveled 46.8 miles. Now says about 32 miles left and maybe 6 bars or so.

The Guess o Meter tends to become more accurate during a trip, especially a typical trip, so I'd say you have a real 12 bars there, with almost 80 miles of range. Try driving it until you get the first Low Battery Warning, at about 18% charge remaining, and see how many estimated miles are left, and how far you've gone. Also, I suggest you switch the dash display to State of Charge (SOC) displayed, as that is much more helpful than the bars for most people.

Thanks LeftieBiker. Since I picked the car up in Anaheim I got to experience that first warning. I had to refill to 80% in Mission Viejo and then drove home at night in the cold fog to San Diego. I had 10 mile left when I arrived home. This was all freeway and about 65 mph but had the heater and AC on low. So this says 100% is about 83 miles at this point in time? I should get the OBD II soon but I didn't see the cable with the on/off switch so I have to send my cable back. It won't stop me from trying it. The car is outside so the solar panel should keep the 12v battery charged.

Do most Leaf owners use the B mode around town? Seems to work very well for me since as a former Prius owner, I learned to anticipate. I read a little more about this and of course coasting is the better option. The Prius had a B mode but most owners believed it hurt gas mileage. Again, coasting is more effective or even something closer to coasting like light regenerative braking and anticipating better.
 
B mode in the Prius adds real engine braking via the ICE, so it does hurt economy. B mode in EVs like the Leaf is good for around town driving, but except in stop and go driving it's probably still most efficient to use Eco (or D with no climate control) and just coast as much as possible, by modulating accelerator pedal pressure. I'd just use whatever mode I like best. Lately I've started using D mode again, just for the sportscar-like low speed acceleration. As for range, 83 miles is about as good as it gets with a 2013 Leaf, short of hypermiling it.
 
LeftieBiker said:
B mode in the Prius adds real engine braking via the ICE, so it does hurt economy. B mode in EVs like the Leaf is good for around town driving, but except in stop and go driving it's probably still most efficient to use Eco (or D with no climate control) and just coast as much as possible, by modulating accelerator pedal pressure. I'd just use whatever mode I like best. Lately I've started using D mode again, just for the sportscar-like low speed acceleration. As for range, 83 miles is about as good as it gets with a 2013 Leaf, short of hypermiling it.

I forgot that B mode in the Prius was engine braking, thanks for the reminder, lol. No wonder most owners never used it! Yes, eco mode is a bit too sluggish for me and I prefer the smoother more responsive D mode or even B mode. With B, timing and long gentle slow downs, which really tick off drivers behind you, might be preferred. The leaf doesn't feel like it has as much standard regenerative braking as a Prius.

From additional reading I gather that charging to 100% might not be as detrimental as I first thought, especially if you try to avoid it when the battery is already hot or on a very hot day. And of course you don't let the car set like that for days at a time. That puts me close to a 60 mile range at least with another 15 or so at the very bottom "just in case". Does this sound about right?
 
Yes that range sounds about right for a 12 bar '13 oh and having a S model I don't have the B mode but shifting in ECO I believe gives me B plus the ECO slower accelerator thing so it's what I use 99.9% of the time.
Interesting thing happens with a Prius(at least the '07 I have) in that the B mode when the battery gets fully charged, you won't gain regen with B but the ICE revs WAY! up, like downshifting a stick car a gear or two. Also when this happens you lose much of the benefit of slowing down the car on a large decline, not so good :(
I also very rarely use B on the Prius, really only think about it when getting off a freeway and I have a long way to slow down and don't want to use the brakes as much, I don't like B on the freeway as I feel it gives too much breaking and very little coasting.
 
jjeff said:
Yes that range sounds about right for a 12 bar '13 oh and having a S model I don't have the B mode but shifting in ECO I believe gives me B plus the ECO slower accelerator thing so it's what I use 99.9% of the time.
Interesting thing happens with a Prius(at least the '07 I have) in that the B mode when the battery gets fully charged, you won't gain regen with B but the ICE revs WAY! up, like downshifting a stick car a gear or two. Also when this happens you lose much of the benefit of slowing down the car on a large decline, not so good :(
I also very rarely use B on the Prius, really only think about it when getting off a freeway and I have a long way to slow down and don't want to use the brakes as much, I don't like B on the freeway as I feel it gives too much breaking and very little coasting.

Yeah I thought about a Prius again. I HATED the way my 2004 handled on the freeway. It did a lot of wiggling and I tried about 4 different sets of tires, had it aligned many times to different toe-in setting. I even had the back shimmed to alignment. Installed the touring anti-sway bars and the newer front struts. It still was vague and wandered a lot. I've heard that with fully independent in the back now it's much better. The leaf doesn't seem to have any of those traits even with the torsion bar rear suspension. In a high cross wind my 2004 Prius was dangerous. And I've owned many different cars in my 52 years of driving. The Prius was the worst and most vague. I know the electronic PS contributed to that but it was 10 years of Love/Hate with that $28K mistake, lol. It doesn't always pay to be an early adopter.
 
I also much prefer the driving experience of my Leaf over the Prius but it's nice to be able to get 50 MPG on our yearly trip to FL(3k miles RT :shock: and a few other 1k trips we take per year). My biggest beef with the Prius is the transmission, I really dislike a CVT, I understand they are great for mileage and I like that but I dislike how they constantly rev up whenever you step at all on the accelerator, comparing it to a very quiet Leaf it's night and day! The Prius is also a bit scary on the turnpike, especially when other cars and especially big trucks are going 80+ MPH bumper to bumper, white knuckle driving for sure. As it's basically time to replace the Prius I'm not at all sure what to get to replace it. I'll probably look at a Prius Prime but have little confidence it will meet our needs(4 passenger thing is almost a deal breaker) and I'm thinking of getting something a little bigger and higher up but I really want it to be PHEV and not just a hybrid and get Prius like economy when in ICE mode for our long trips. That severely limits one choices, I'm kind of waiting to see how the Kia Nero or even Hyundai Ioniq turn out.
Oh I wouldn't worry if your OBDII cable didn't have a switch, they are very low current draw and the only issue might be if you parked for weeks at a time, in that case you could simply unplug it. For daily driving leaving it plugged in all the time is no worry. Note some OBDII adapters have a ON/OFF switch, mine doesn't and in hindsight I might have bought one like that but I didn't know at the time and my little blue $12.99 special is working just fine.
 
jjeff said:
That severely limits one choices, I'm kind of waiting to see how the Kia Nero or even Hyundai Ioniq turn out.

That Hyundai looks interesting. The quiet of the Leaf is incredible. I don't have to crank up the bose very much and can even carry on a conversation with someone. And I never forget the blinker...damn thing is very loud and the car is very quiet. I'm going to use the Leaf for everything I can except the longer trips. Wish I had bought the 3 car garage model now, lol.

My Leaf has that solar charger so I imagine if it's not covered it will overcome any small use of the OBD II. I ordered the on/off switch anyway since I bought a car cover from Amazon today. The leaf is going to stay outside unless it's very hot.
 
My biggest beef with the Prius is the transmission, I really dislike a CVT, I understand they are great for mileage and I like that but I dislike how they constantly rev up whenever you step at all on the accelerator, comparing it to a very quiet Leaf it's night and day!

The Prius doesn't have a CVT. It has a complex combination of two electric motors and an ICE, all geared together. On a good day I can picture it, but not usually. The Volt has a similar setup.
 
LeftieBiker said:
My biggest beef with the Prius is the transmission, I really dislike a CVT, I understand they are great for mileage and I like that but I dislike how they constantly rev up whenever you step at all on the accelerator, comparing it to a very quiet Leaf it's night and day!

The Prius doesn't have a CVT. It has a complex combination of two electric motors and an ICE, all geared together. On a good day I can picture it, but not usually. The Volt has a similar setup.

Yeah would have to be a very good day. Epicyclic gear train. It does act and behave like a true CVT. My Subaru is a true CVT. The Prius consumes a bit more at cruising speeds because of this set up but they keep squeezing more and more out of it anyway. The Prius can really whine if the battery is very low and you gas it. It does a pretty good job of keeping the battery out of that condition but it can happen. It doesn't accelerate very well without the electric motor's torque then either, lol.

I am really enjoying my Leaf so far. It's at 18 miles available right now, 3 bars, after traveling 63.5 miles at 4.7 miles/kW-hr.
 
LeftieBiker said:
The Prius doesn't have a CVT. It has a complex combination of two electric motors and an ICE, all geared together. On a good day I can picture it, but not usually. The Volt has a similar setup.
It's not that complex. On Gen 1 thru 3 Prius (don't know about Gen 4 (model year 2016+)), it's a single planetary gearset w/2 motor/generators, no torque converter, no clutch packs, etc. Mechanically, it's simpler than a regular automatic transmission.

http://eahart.com/prius/psd/

I have some pics but can't put them up right now. They were on a Picasaweb album but Google killed that product and I need to do some fixing to try to expose it agian.

Volt's setup is much more complex w/4 clutches added.
 
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