2013 Leaf S with 11 of 12 Bars Normal?

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CarPortal

Active member
Joined
Nov 28, 2015
Messages
41
Location
Northern California
I'm considering buying a 2013 Leaf S with nearly 40K miles on it and 11/12 bars. I would be buying the car at auction with the intent of driving it a bit and reselling it later. I just returned my leased 2013 SL to NMAC because it had only 10/12 bars at only 25K miles. My SL had a manufacture date of 3/13. The car I'm considering buying has a manufacture date of 4/13. I remember reading on this board that the "lizard" battery chemistry was phased into US built cars 4/13 so this car should have the lizard battery correct? And if so is it "normal" to have lost one bar at this point?

Thanks for your help.

Full Disclosure: I'm thinking about starting an online used car dealership that is focused purely on EV's and PHEV's. However, I also really loved my SL and was sorry to see it go. Today my two sons told me they hate the smell of our gas car and wish we could get another EV...so I'm looking at this 2013 S or something else and I'm wondering if loosing 1 bar at 35-40K miles is normal. Thanks again.
 
Motarra said:
The car I'm considering buying has a manufacture date of 4/13. I remember reading on this board that the "lizard" battery chemistry was phased into US built cars 4/13 so this car should have the lizard battery correct?
No. See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17168. However, there are some claims that it might've gone into some late model year 2014 vehicles. AFAIK, Nissan has never confirmed that.

We believe that vehicles w/build dates of ~4/2013 or later seem to have better batteries than ones (from a degradation POV) built before it.
Motarra said:
And if so is it "normal" to have lost one bar at this point?
Maybe. Depends on temps of where it was located and how it was treated. There is a 1 BL 2013 w/supposed build date of 9/2013 at http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Real_World_Battery_Capacity_Loss#one_bars. Also search for 2013 model there.
 
11 bars is quite normal for a '13 with higher miles. I'm the one who posited the "Canary Pack" theory for Leafs built January through March of 2013. So far there is significant circumstantial evidence*, but no solid proof that these packs are different. It just appears that most of the 2013 Leafs reported here with fewer than 11 bars were built in those months, and that when the build date is in that range, there is usually at least one, and often two bars missing. Keep in mind that yours could be on the verge of losing that 11th bar. My 2013 SV was built in April of 2013, though, and so far I still have 12 bars. The 2013 Leaf does not have the "Lizard Pack" though, just what seems to be a better chemistry than the earlier version.

* It started with an auction listing posted here that had build dates included, as well as bar status, if I remember correctly. All of the leafs with fewer than 11 bars were built Jan-March, as well as most (all?) of the ones with 11.
 
I just ordered the LELink bluetooth adapter so I can LeafSpy any car I'm interested in buying. I'll read all the details in other threads on this forum, but in general LeafSpy will provide data that will help me determine if a bar is about to go, correct?

Also is there a general perception amongst Leaf owners/shoppers that a car that has lost a bar is worth much less than a car with 12 bars? I know that I have a built in bias against buying a car that has 11/12 bars even if I get a great deal on it. My personal feeling is that I would want to pay about $1,000 less for a 11/12 bar car vs a 12/12 bar car with similar miles and condition.

Thanks again for your input.
 
LeafSpy will give you both the capacity in Amp Hours (AH) and the "State Of Health" (SOH) reading, which closely reflects the capacity loss. So a Leaf with a SOH reading of 89% (as mine read last Fall) has lost about 11% of capacity, with about another 5% to go before the 12th bar vanishes. Here is a great AH to Bar chart that someone here posted again tonight:

66.25AHr = approximate AHr value of a brand new 2011-2013 LEAF battery pack
54AHr-55.5AHr = expected AHr range at which loss of bar 12 occurs
50AHr-51.5AHr = expected AHr range at which loss of bar 11 occurs
46AHr-47.5AHr = expected AHr range at which loss of bar 10 occurs
42AHr-43.5AHr = expected AHr range at which loss of bar 9 occurs

Yes, 11 bar Leafs are considered to be worth less than 12 bar Leafs, but a 2011 or 2012 Leaf with barely 12 bars might lose them faster, and end up with less capacity than a 2013 Leaf with a solid 11 bars. And now 2012 Leafs with 10 or 9 bars are actually sought after by folks who buy them in the hopes of getting down to 8 bars fast enough to "win" a free replacement pack from Nissan...
 
Great chart. Will save it to my notes for the auction.

Are either of those two readings impacted at all by the state of charge of the battery at the time the reading is taken? When I test cars I'm interested in buying I will not be able to charge them to 100% before testing.
 
Motarra said:
Great chart. Will save it to my notes for the auction.

Are either of those two readings impacted at all by the state of charge of the battery at the time the reading is taken? When I test cars I'm interested in buying I will not be able to charge them to 100% before testing.

No, the AH and SOH readings will be accurate at any state of charge (SOC). They fluctuate a little, but not directly with SOC.
 
What do you guys think is a fair price point for a 2013 S with QC, 12/12 bars and ~35K miles? Car is in pristine condition. I see them on AutoTrader and Ebay for anywhere from $9,500 to $13,500 in Northern California...that's a pretty wide range.
 
Motarra said:
What do you guys think is a fair price point for a 2013 S with QC, 12/12 bars and ~35K miles? Car is in pristine condition. I see them on AutoTrader and Ebay for anywhere from $9,500 to $13,500 in Northern California...that's a pretty wide range.


The value of the S varies by regional climate, IMO. In California the lack of a heat pump isn't nearly as big an issue as it would be in Wisconsin. Still, the S has fewer features, so look at the price of a similar SV and subtract a couple of thousand.
 
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