pemifer
Member
Just saw a 2011 with a replaced battery in October 2014.
Will this be a good buy?
Will the battery of this car be the same as a mk2 car?
Will this be a good buy?
Will the battery of this car be the same as a mk2 car?
2011 with 2014 battery
- Thread starter pemifer
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TomT
Well-known member
.
To the best of my knowledge, they started manufacturing the lizard replacement batteries in April 2014, while I'm sure there are some 2011 models that got replacements "pre-lizard" my guess is that a 10/14 replacement would most likely be a newer lizard pack.
dhanson865
Well-known member
pemifer said:
No such think as a mk2 leaf yet.
The battery in that car is the same 24 kWh pack that is used on 2011 to 2015 cars (minor differences over the years but nothing to equate to a version 2).
There is a 30 kWh pack option on the 2016 but Nissan does not install those in pre 2016 cars at this time.
LTLFTcomposite
Well-known member
What is mk2?
powersurge
Well-known member
In answer to the original question, If you can get an 11 with low miles and a new battery, it is as good as a 2015 model.
pemifer
Member
dhanson865 said:
There are posts in this forum talking about mk2 and mk1 cars, you say there's no such thing?
Did you comment those posts saying there's no such thing?
There are posts explaining the differences between mk1 and mk2 cars, why would people explain such a thing if theres no such thing?
This is a real surprise to me.
pemifer
Member
Above there is a moderator of the forum saying mk2 doesn't exist.LTLFTcomposite said:
Before a read this I was convinced that mk1 were those built till end of 2012.
Mk2 would be from 2013 on.
I was convinced that Nissan changed bateries to be more heat resistant.
They changed parking break and heating.
It's all I know, probably lies!
The term "mk1" is what's causing the confusion. It sounds to me like a European expression, as I've seen it used with sports cars. As for the Leaf, the 2011 & 2012 cars came with the same pack, and this pack is very prone to losing capacity, especially in hotter temperatures. In 2013 (apparently beginning in April of 2013, not January) they started using an improved version of the pack that still loses capacity fast in extreme heat, but loses it more slowly in milder temps. A Leaf manufactured between April of 2015 and sometime late in 2014 will often keep all 12 capacity bars for several years, except in hot climates. They then tend to lose just one bar, keeping 11 bars for probably the same length of time. The 2015 Leaf has the so-called "Lizard Pack" that is supposed to resist heat very well, but the available evidence seems to indicate that it does not - it just resists normal degradation better than earlier versions, while still losing bars in extremely hot climates. So if you want to divide the packs up into versions, eras, Mks, whatever, it looks something like this:
Version 1: all 2011 & 2012 Leafs
Version 1.5 Leafs manufactured between April 2013 and sometime in late 2014
Version 1.75 (Lizard) 24kwh Leafs manufactured between late 2014 and 2016
Version 2? 30kwh packs found in 2016 Leaf SV and SL models only.
Version 3? 2017 Leafs, or at least the SV and SL, are supposed to come with a pack with capacity in the 60kwh range, although I'm not sure that this exact capacity is certain.
Version 1: all 2011 & 2012 Leafs
Version 1.5 Leafs manufactured between April 2013 and sometime in late 2014
Version 1.75 (Lizard) 24kwh Leafs manufactured between late 2014 and 2016
Version 2? 30kwh packs found in 2016 Leaf SV and SL models only.
Version 3? 2017 Leafs, or at least the SV and SL, are supposed to come with a pack with capacity in the 60kwh range, although I'm not sure that this exact capacity is certain.
GRA
Well-known member
I suspect most of us consider that we won't have a v2 version of the LEAF until the next generation (new body, chassis etc.) arrives - see Volt 1 (2011-2015) vs. Volt 2. Exactly where all the LEAF v1.X divisions are is a matter of personal taste/whimsy among the general public. FWIW, I rate the 2011 w/o the Cold Weather package as v1.0, 2011/12 with it as 1.1, 2013s as V1.2 or1.25 (S/SV-SL), and so on. The 2017 30kWh cars would be v1.5 for me, as I consider them a (too long-delayed) mid-life update; it would have been a big deal in 2014 as the first 'affordable' BEV with triple digit EPA range, and still fairly important in 2015, but not in 2016.LeftieBiker said:
I was focusing on the differences between the packs, not on the car as a whole.
dhanson865
Well-known member
pemifer said:
Partially lies, mostly just confusion.
Are you in North America or Europe? The European Leaf forums toss out mk2 carelessly. And media/news sites toss out crappy headlines that call 2013 a new generation all the time.
Nissan has said that Leaf version 2 will have a 60 kWh pack so until you see 60 kWh packs in a Leaf I think I'll follow their lead and say there is no version 2 yet.
Considering version 1 has a 24 kWh pack and there is an in between 30 kWh pack and a future to be 60 kWh pack I think of it more like
1.0 2011 Leaf
1.11 2011 Leaf with cold weather package (offered late in the model year)
1.12 2012 Leaf (all 2012 and newer have the cold weather package built in)
1.13 2013/2014 Leaf S trim (stripped with 3.x KW charger)
1.20 2013/2014 Leaf SV/SL (with 6.x KW charger)
1.25 2015/2016 Leaf S trim (stripped with 3.x KW charger and the improved 24 kWh battery)
1.30 2016 Leaf S trim with charging upgrade package (6.x KW charger and Chademo port)
1.35 2015 Leaf SV/SL (with a guaranteed improved 24 kWh battery that some call "lizard")
1.5 2016 Leaf SV/SL (and only because it has the 30 kWh pack, still plenty of items that should have been improved)
I don't consider the parking brake change significant and the heat pump change is noticeable but not as important to me as heat degradation resistance in the pack (which hasn't improved much) and range (which only noticeably improved when the 30 kWh pack came out).
2013 pack degradation is detailed in threads here and in the wiki and isn't significantly better than 2011/2012 packs. The primary difference there may be that the southwest states sold 2011/2012 to early adopters that got burned and 2013 packs were more evenly distributed around the country.
2015 packs are supposed to be even better than 2013 packs but we still have threads here with 2013 and 2015 packs losing bars in the heat at rates similar to the 2011 packs. Better but not immune. Any talk of version 2 is playing down how little the pack situation has changed in those refreshes.
Anything short of a coolant loop or a capacity change and you'll still be range limited due to degradation with a low capacity pack. I don't consider any of the 24 kWh packs worthy of a V2 title.
2.0 might be the 2017 or 2018 model year. When it comes expect Nissan to hail it as a big improvement with a 60 kWh pack and watch the 2.0 label fly again. How will the media react? Will they cry mea culpa over calling the 2013 Leaf 2 back in the day or will they act like they never said it?
My reading of the same info here as you tells me that the 4/13+ Leaf pack doesn't lose bars as fast or as often as the 2011/2012 pack, except maybe in extreme heat. How many of the latter kept 12 bars for 3+ years, while being exposed to hot summers?
dhanson865
Well-known member
LeftieBiker said:
Just look at how many qualifiers you had to use. With only 2 qualifiers you've made 4 categories.
2013 in extreme heat vs
2013 in extreme heat but pack made after 4/2013 vs
2013 not in extreme heat vs
2013 not in extreme heat but pack made after 4/2013
You live in New York according to your profile so you don't have to worry about the heat. You not having to worry about it doesn't make the 2013 battery any less susceptible to heat for others that do live in the deep south.
I still think about the classes of leaf owners that
Don't get a free battery but don't notice significant degradation (say 1 or 2 bars lost by 60months/60,000 miles)
Get a free battery before warranty is expired and only lose 1 or 2 bars on the new pack
Get a free battery but end up losing several bars on the second pack as well
Lose enough bars to need the free pack but get denied because it happens on the wrong side of the warranty limit.
We haven't seen the 60 month limit kick in for 2013 packs yet. A lot of the 2013/2014 packs were sold to people that don't hang out here on the forums. I'm saying wait for the newcomers to come in around late 2016 / 2017 / or even early 2018, that's when you'll know about the degradation history on the 2013 packs if you want long term data.
Keep in mind that Model Years can bunch together cars that should be in separate buckets when comparing how many summers a car has seen. Yep even I use qualifiers to separate them.
I trust the canaries that live in AZ/CA/TX/FL that are losing bars in 2013 and 2015 cars and expect people in other states to see that degradation in the coming summers.
Will that 2013 pack owner feel more lucky if slower degradation means they lose 4 bars at 70,000 miles instead of 50,000 and they don't get a free pack? Will they care if they were pre 4/2013 or post 4/2013 if they have a car that has diminished resale value?
The day I looked at and drove my car in 2013 it was 93F. The day I picked it up it was 91F. That summer we had 13 days at or above 90F, with too many to count in the mid to upper 80s. Of the last three Summers, two have seen record-breaking heat. As I type this, it is 71F at 1:30am, after hitting 86F yesterday and 89F the day before. New York State isn't Washington State. But I'm not going by my car, primarily. I've been reading here for three years now, and the 2013 pack after 3/13 (and I don't know why you dismiss Nissan's apparent use of the old chemistry for three months in 2013 as a "qualifier") seems to be holding up much better in climates that aren't hot. Sure, that's another "qualifier," but it's one that does nothing to contradict the point I made. Nissan apparently redesigned the pack to avoid having to pay warranty claims, and once they started actually building the improved pack, they seem to have succeeded. The cars will still lose one or two bars commonly, but the four-bar losers that are so common today are going to be almost entirely limited to those early 2013 packs and those in cars in desert heat. That's significant, even if it isn't fantastic.
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