... was offered 7500 NMAC credit towards payoff of 2013 leaf

So I just got an offer from NMAC to reduce my payoff amount by $7500 if I go down to the dealer by April 1 to buy it out.

background: I have a 2013 leaf with ~41k miles on it. The lease is up in Oct. The battery has already lost 1 bar (~30k miles), and I'm expecting the second one to go before Oct. The car's been good, except that I've had to fix the AC twice. With the discount, I'm expecting to pay ~6500 out of pocket to buy out the lease.

Should I do it? With a flood of off-lease leafs coming up in the second half of 2016, and the GM bolt being in production around then, I think the value of the leaf will drop even further. Right now, the range is just good enough for my commute, and as I lose more bars, I have access to a charger at work that would permit me to make the reduced range work (but at $0.32/kwh it's EXPENSIVE). So if there's a better offer between now and Oct, it'll make more financial sense.

Or should I take the offer and hope that the battery loses 4 bars before I reach 60k miles?

I think that is the deal I was offered as well but my residual must be quite a bit higher than yours. (Our payment is $100/month). You might want to be checking Car Guru for comparables now and as time goes on. With more of an idea of the options you have it should be easier to make a decision that works for you. Hoping for a new battery might not be your best bet.

Oils4AsphaultOnly said:

So I just got an offer from NMAC to reduce my payoff amount by $7500 if I go down to the dealer by April 1 to buy it out.

background: I have a 2013 leaf with ~41k miles on it. The lease is up in Oct. The battery has already lost 1 bar (~30k miles), and I'm expecting the second one to go before Oct. The car's been good, except that I've had to fix the AC twice. With the discount, I'm expecting to pay ~6500 out of pocket to buy out the lease.

Should I do it? With a flood of off-lease leafs coming up in the second half of 2016, and the GM bolt being in production around then, I think the value of the leaf will drop even further. Right now, the range is just good enough for my commute, and as I lose more bars, I have access to a charger at work that would permit me to make the reduced range work (but at $0.32/kwh it's EXPENSIVE). So if there's a better offer between now and Oct, it'll make more financial sense.

Or should I take the offer and hope that the battery loses 4 bars before I reach 60k miles?

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$6500 is a good deal on a 2013, even if it is an "S". Does it have a QC port? Are you within your allowed mileage on the lease? What is the in-service date, i.e. when did you lease it? When was the car manufactured (look at the label on the driver's door jamb). $0.32./kwh is not too terrible especially if there is no minimum charge, at my work I'm paying $0.55c/kwh with $2 minimum.

Valdemar said:

$6500 is a good deal on a 2013, even if it is an "S". Does it have a QC port? Are you within your allowed mileage on the lease? What is the in-service date, i.e. when did you lease it? When was the car manufactured (look at the label on the driver's door jamb). $0.32./kwh is not too terrible especially if there is no minimum charge, at my work I'm paying $0.55c/kwh with $2 minimum.

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Yes, it does have the ChaDeMo, and my mileage limit is 45k, so I'm getting pretty close. I leased it in Oct 2013, so it's a 3 year lease. Manufactured in Sept 2013.

As for the charging, it's actually $2/hr (minimum of 1 hr). Since I have the 6.6kwh charger (chargepoint says I'm drawing 6.2kw), that comes out to ~32c/kwh

I leased it in Oct 2013, so it's a 3 year lease. Manufactured in Sept 2013.

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If the second bar drops, this may be the first 2 bar loser we've seen built after March of 2013, or at most one of a very few. Is your climate hot?

Turnover said:

I think that is the deal I was offered as well but my residual must be quite a bit higher than yours. (Our payment is $100/month). You might want to be checking Car Guru for comparables now and as time goes on. With more of an idea of the options you have it should be easier to make a decision that works for you. Hoping for a new battery might not be your best bet.

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my payment was $300/month, so I'm pretty sure I paid forward whatever our differences were.

Thanks for the car guru tip, I checked them out and 2013 leafs in my area with 30k miles are ~$8k. So with 50% more miles, I guess my offer wasn't that good afterall.

LeftieBiker said:

I leased it in Oct 2013, so it's a 3 year lease. Manufactured in Sept 2013.

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If the second bar drops, this may be the first 2 bar loser we've seen built after March of 2013, or at most one of a very few. Is your climate hot?

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I'm in SoCal, more inland than downtown LA. Not as bad as AZ, but we did have a week of 100F - 115F weather last year. Might also be the mileage, I average ~16k miles per year.

Oils4AsphaultOnly said:

Valdemar said:

$6500 is a good deal on a 2013, even if it is an "S". Does it have a QC port? Are you within your allowed mileage on the lease? What is the in-service date, i.e. when did you lease it? When was the car manufactured (look at the label on the driver's door jamb). $0.32./kwh is not too terrible especially if there is no minimum charge, at my work I'm paying $0.55c/kwh with $2 minimum.

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Yes, it does have the ChaDeMo, and my mileage limit is 45k, so I'm getting pretty close. I leased it in Oct 2013, so it's a 3 year lease. Manufactured in Sept 2013.

As for the charging, it's actually $2/hr (minimum of 1 hr). Since I have the 6.6kwh charger (chargepoint says I'm drawing 6.2kw), that comes out to ~32c/kwh

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If you can drive the car less so that you can hit 60k miles after 10/2018 I think you'll have enough time to make those 4 bars disappear, but with about 15k annual miles gambling on losing them by 10/2017 is too risky. Also it is not clear if Nissan will start providing reburb packs at some point, as unlike in the case of 11/12 owners they are only obligated to restore the battery to 9 bars by warranty terms. Also I've just realized that even if $6500 is a good price today it may not be such in October. Overall, guessing your 60-or-so mile commute, I think the safest strategy is to give it back, but I'd re-access the market, mileage overage, and battery condition later to make the final decision.

Chargepoint $2/hr 1hr minimum sounds familiar, do you work in Burbank by any chance?

LeftieBiker said:

I leased it in Oct 2013, so it's a 3 year lease. Manufactured in Sept 2013.

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If the second bar drops, this may be the first 2 bar loser we've seen built after March of 2013, or at most one of a very few. Is your climate hot?

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As far as I can tell this late build 2013 performed very similarly to my 2011 in the same climate and comparable annual mileage. I long suspected that the theory that 2013 cars built after April had better packs lacked sufficient evidence, I think we have enough examples to say that this theory is just a myth.

PS: heck, turns our cars are even parked in the same underground structure during the week! Even stronger correlation.

Valdemar said:

If you can drive the car less so that you can hit 60k miles after 10/2018 I think you'll have enough time to make those 4 bars disappear, but with about 15k annual miles gambling on losing them by 10/2017 is too risky. Also it is not clear if Nissan will start providing reburb packs at some point, as unlike in the case of 11/12 owners they are only obligated to restore the battery to 9 bars by warranty terms. Also I've just realized that even if $6500 is a good price today it may not be such in October. Overall, guessing your 60-or-so mile commute, I think the safest strategy is to give it back, but I'd re-access the market, mileage overage, and battery condition later to make the final decision.

Chargepoint $2/hr 1hr minimum sounds familiar, do you work in Burbank by any chance?

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YES! I work in Burbank, in the same business park as Yahoo. There's a chargepoint near Burbank city hall that used to go by per kwh charging, don't know if that's been changed over the years though.

As for not driving until 2018 ... to heat soak the batteries? Tempting, but I'd have to buyout the lease to do that. And the idea of the battery being restored to only 9 bars doesn't sit well with me.

Besides, the leaf likes to be driven, it's not the cars fault that it's "stomach" can't keep up.

Oils4AsphaultOnly said:

Valdemar said:

If you can drive the car less so that you can hit 60k miles after 10/2018 I think you'll have enough time to make those 4 bars disappear, but with about 15k annual miles gambling on losing them by 10/2017 is too risky. Also it is not clear if Nissan will start providing reburb packs at some point, as unlike in the case of 11/12 owners they are only obligated to restore the battery to 9 bars by warranty terms. Also I've just realized that even if $6500 is a good price today it may not be such in October. Overall, guessing your 60-or-so mile commute, I think the safest strategy is to give it back, but I'd re-access the market, mileage overage, and battery condition later to make the final decision.

Chargepoint $2/hr 1hr minimum sounds familiar, do you work in Burbank by any chance?

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YES! I work in Burbank, in the same business park as Yahoo. There's a chargepoint near Burbank city hall that used to go by per kwh charging, don't know if that's been changed over the years though.

As for not driving until 2018 ... to heat soak the batteries? Tempting, but I'd have to buyout the lease to do that. And the idea of the battery being restored to only 9 bars doesn't sit well with me.

Besides, the leaf likes to be driven, it's not the cars fault that it's "stomach" can't keep up.

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I suppose there is a reason they call this world small, he-he. I think the only white 2011 Leaf in that complex is mine. We should probably whine about our Leafs over lunch some day. There is plenty of less expensive charging in Burbank, but none as convenient as plugging in at work, sigh.

I received this same offer today OR the opportunity to extend the lease for 1 year with 1 payment forgiven. My 2013 was leased based on 15000 miles per year. In 2.5 years, we have only driven 24000 miles. The dealership is egging me on to trade the Leaf in on a 2016.

If I extend one year, will the 2017s have a significantly better range?

This being my first lease, I have not clue how to move forward. Cannot wait to hear your decision.

Just read the OP one more time and I missed the April 1st buyout requirement. Is it $6500 including your payments until October? If so you can buy it out and attempt to sell the car now for some extra pocket money.

Valdemar said:

Just read the OP one more time and I missed the April 1st buyout requirement. Is it $6500 including your payments until October? If so you can buy it out and attempt to sell the car now for some extra pocket money.

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Yes, but if I re-sold it for pocket money, I'd have no car to commute with?! With the NMAC discount, I'd have paid ~18k all-inclusive for the leaf. Re-selling it for $8k (private party) means that I sunk $10k for 2.5 years of driving. Keeping it after the buying gives me more time to amortize the use of the car. So ... nah.

djuggler said:

I received this same offer today OR the opportunity to extend the lease for 1 year with 1 payment forgiven. My 2013 was leased based on 15000 miles per year. In 2.5 years, we have only driven 24000 miles. The dealership is egging me on to trade the Leaf in on a 2016.

If I extend one year, will the 2017s have a significantly better range?

This being my first lease, I have not clue how to move forward. Cannot wait to hear your decision.

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The 2017s are still 24kwh for the base S, and 30kwh for the SL & SV trims. With the bolt coming out, I can't imagine trading in for another leaf unless the price was REALLY right.

Which is where I'm at now. The $7500 discount brings my car's buyout price to about parity with current market value. If they could increase that discount just a bit further (like $10,000? ), I would definitely buy it out. For now, the price is borderline (after checking cargurus.com), and that April 1st deadline now feels like a sleaze tactic ("this deal is only good for today or it's off").

Valdemar said:

I suppose there is a reason they call this world small, he-he. I think the only white 2011 Leaf in that complex is mine. We should probably whine about our Leafs over lunch some day. There is plenty of less expensive charging in Burbank, but none as convenient as plugging in at work, sigh.

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NO KIDDING?!?! Mine's the maroon one (there's 3!!)

Oils4AsphaultOnly said:

Valdemar said:

Just read the OP one more time and I missed the April 1st buyout requirement. Is it $6500 including your payments until October? If so you can buy it out and attempt to sell the car now for some extra pocket money.

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Yes, but if I re-sold it for pocket money, I'd have no car to commute with?! With the NMAC discount, I'd have paid ~18k all-inclusive for the leaf. Re-selling it for $8k (private party) means that I sunk $10k for 2.5 years of driving. Keeping it after the buying gives me more time to amortize the use of the car. So ... nah.

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The damage is already done, and unless you can score a new pack for free there will be more damage down the road. $10k for 2.5 years of driving is $330/mo on a 12.5k/year lease if you sell now, it is not too bad for a $25k car (after the incentives) especially considering gas savings with your longish commute.

Valdemar said:

The damage is already done, and unless you can score a new pack for free there will be more damage down the road. $10k for 2.5 years of driving is $330/mo on a 12.5k/year lease if you sell now, it is not too bad for a $25k car (after the incentives) especially considering gas savings with your longish commute.

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Yes, the $10k is sunk cost and has no effect between keeping the leaf and getting a new one. But the $8k component isn't - it either goes towards a new vehicle or is the price of keeping the leaf. Also, $8k isn't finalized either. I have 6 months to see if there's a better discount from NMAC versus a lower resale value due to the leaf having 5k more miles on it.

Actually, having thought this out a little further, I'm pretty sure I won't get a new leaf. If I re-sold the lease and leased a new leaf S for 3 years (same 15k mile terms), I would be out $10k + $10.8k with no vehicle left at the end of 3 years. However, if I bought out the leaf and bought a brand new battery next year (not warranty replacement), I would be out $18K + $6k. And I'll still have a usable leaf (that has only 30k miles on the new battery). As long as the leaf is worth at least $3200 at that point, it would still pencil out as being better than the resell idea.

Oils4AsphaultOnly said:

Valdemar said:

The damage is already done, and unless you can score a new pack for free there will be more damage down the road. $10k for 2.5 years of driving is $330/mo on a 12.5k/year lease if you sell now, it is not too bad for a $25k car (after the incentives) especially considering gas savings with your longish commute.

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Yes, the $10k is sunk cost and has no effect between keeping the leaf and getting a new one. But the $8k component isn't - it either goes towards a new vehicle or is the price of keeping the leaf. Also, $8k isn't finalized either. I have 6 months to see if there's a better discount from NMAC versus a lower resale value due to the leaf having 5k more miles on it.

Actually, having thought this out a little further, I'm pretty sure I won't get a new leaf. If I re-sold the lease and leased a new leaf S for 3 years (same 15k mile terms), I would be out $10k + $10.8k with no vehicle left at the end of 3 years. However, if I bought out the leaf and bought a brand new battery next year (not warranty replacement), I would be out $18K + $6k. And I'll still have a usable leaf (that has only 30k miles on the new battery). As long as the leaf is worth at least $3200 at that point, it would still pencil out as being better than the resell idea.

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I don't necessarily disagree, but here is some additional thoughts you may want to consider

- there is a possibility of expensive out of pocket repairs past 60k miles, a fried OBC, the heater, or electronic brake booster are modules that are known to fail from time to time on Leafs will set you off about $3k each to replace, increasing your long term cost of ownership
- dropping 6 large on a new pack will not magically increase the market value of your car from the insurance company point of view, so your car can be declared as total loss from an otherwise repairable damage due to an accident, there goes your new pack investment
- the upcoming tire replacement is a $500 expense you need to count
- the emotional factor of driving an "old" car

Considering a 9-year horizon from the date you leased your Leaf, and if everything goes well with it, a battery you purchase, no major out of pocket repairs, and 2 sets of new tires will cost you:

$18,000(car) + $6,000(new battery) + 1,000(tires) - 2,000(WAG resale value) = $23,000 ($213/mo over 108 months)
add a major repair +$3,000 = $26,000 ($240/mo over 108 months)
vs.
$10,000 (current sunk cost) + $22,000 (2x 2 year leases) = $32,000 ($296/mo over 108 months)

Thinking further, instead of keeping your car and buying a new battery you might be better off finding a good deal on a 2016 SL/SV purchase if you have access to the fed. tax credit this year, combined with the CVRP rebate with some luck it should net you about $23k sans sales tax, plus I think you can still get the No Charge to Charge deal for 2 years. KBB shows $8,000 cash rebates and 0% financing available on 2016s purchase, you just need to find a dealer who's willing to pass these to you. Costa Mesa Nissan had some aggressive 2015 deals listed on their website, I'd check with them. This will get a longer range vehicle with longer capacity warranty and bumper to bumper warranty coverage for almost 3 and EV drivetrain for 4 more years, that should meet your needs for at least 6 years and have a better resale value in the end than your 2013.

FWIW, I was offered the $7,500 NMAC buyout incentive and was told by NMAC about the dealer incentives that existed (up to $1,500) and that I had read about in EV articles. Finding a dealer that would give me both was tough but I did it! $9k off. See below thread.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=16629&start=450