2011-2012 Leaf Values with battery degradation

So I keep shopping used Leafs, I dunno maybe find a bargain one and just pick it up as an extra car. What is interesting most ads show a photo of the instrument cluster which points out how many bars of battery capacity and pretty much every one has 11 or less bars, many are at 10, some are at 9. Some show about a 75% charge level with 40 miles of range so it's obvious they are seriously degraded batteries.

Now, If the battery capacity is that much degraded I would only buy one with the thought that I would put a new battery in it. So the cost for the car needs to reflect that and I don't think any 3 or 4 model year old Leaf is worth more than $15K even with a new battery. Most of the cars are in the $12K to $14K range, so adding the cost of the battery puts them up to almost what a new one is.

Am I just way off base on this or do the dealers and owners selling really need to get real about the resale values? Or are people unfamiliar with the car coming along and buying them with 70-75% or so of the original battery capacity and range?

I looked at a '13 today with 14K miles, full battery bars, nice car, but had a fender ding and they still wanted $18K. If a new 2015 S is right about $19K with all the incentives I'm just not understanding the used values at all. Or are people just hoping? <shrug>

:lol: :lol:

I too am shopping for USED 2011/12 because the depreciation on a NEW leaf makes it stupid, IF you cannot use the Tax Credit.
( I can't ! ) Some poor chump paid more than half the price of the car to use it 2 years. I'll buy the next 20 ! Thanks Pal. Thanks Uncle Sam
for paying it down for me.

Expect to buy a Decent 2011 Leaf for 12-14,500 . Maybe a grand more for 2012. Price difference SL/SV not much. SL will sell first. It's what I want.

Get familiar with the terms of Nissan Leaf Certified Warranty. This will be difficult. it's Not on Nissan Site.. Web says get booklet from Nissan Dealer.
Demand the Booklet. You may have to call Nissan Corporate - Leaf After Sales Support to get one sent . All it will do is extend
the EV system warranty out to 100K miles.

Don't pay extra for the dingbat Extended Service Contract.. which does NOTHING but costs plenty.
Get AAA instead.

Realize that NOTHING ON EARTH will extend the Loss of Capacity Warranty beyond 5 years/60 months. Nothing !
So what you buy is what you get- Battery wise.

Realize that a Used Car Salesman is a Giant Wealth of Mis-Information. Nissan or not.
They will spout 8 years and gazillion mile battery warranty. That is for Defects NOT loss of capacity !
They will quote Hybrid Warranty.. doesn't apply to Leaf. They will quote Gas Warranty... sheesh !
They wont even know that Nissan has an EV certified warranty - ( Nissan Does). You decide what it is worth to you.

I called a couple of Nissan Dealers and even the service dept didn't have the EV Certified Warranty Booklet !

I will probably buy from a corner lot.. unless I can find a Plum at a dealer.

there is nothing wrong with using a car with 11, 10, 9, 8,7 bars.. just buy as much battery life as you can.
Every Bar is worth about $1000 in my mind. when 12 bars is nearly new and 7 bars is warranty replacement or $5000.
I will buy 12 if I can find it.. but expect 11.

Be extra careful with cars with "no miles". Use Leaf Spy !

( of course the car might go 5-6 years at 7 bars ! )

If you are gambling on getting a warranty replacement, realize you are gambling.

Read and understand the Battery Wiki ! ( projected life, cycle life, etc )

I will probably use mine well into the 5-10 year predicted life cycle, at reduced capacity.
Because I don't have to have the full range or high speeds. You may.

But I am not buying it that way !


-- begin Rant--

Lets face it Tax Credit is Welfare for Rich Folks !. If you don't have a high income and high taxes.. the Credit doesn't exist !
No new leaf for me !

-- Rant over--

--

I am seeing a decent number of 2011's that still have 11 Bars - which is pretty typical for a good Leaf with 20-30K miles. I have even seen a couple with 12 !
IF it has lived in a Moderate Climate And it hasn't been subjected to Overcharging and other High Battery Temp Events, it is worth buying.
Otherwise... why bother ?

I wont be buying anything will less than 11 bars, because I am buying long term use ( and probably my last car ).

Realize the car will last 50-100 years.. and that batteries will come and go. How long do you keep cars ?
I keep mine for decades. Think about it.
---

So, how do you tell about Climate and Over Temp ?

1. Read the Carfax... page 3 which shows where the car was sold, where it was serviced, if it was a Lease or Rental.

So step one.. is cull out cars from Very Hot Places. Palm Springs and Fresno are VERY HOT . Just reject them.
San Jose is HOT. LA is HOT Sacramento is HOT and People there drive FAST and they Drive LONG. So use due diligence.

Many cars sold in Cal come from other states. Be Careful.. Read the Car Fax.

Notably "Nice" Leafs for Sale in Bay Area this week come from Illinois and Arizona.
Meanwhile two lowest price leafs are both bay area cars with 11 bars. go figure.


Step 2. Look at the Battery Bars

Step 3. Buy LeafSpy and an OBDII/ELM327 blue tooth reader, and use an android device ( I have Tab2 ) to check the vehicle events.
$30 bucks plus the tablet or phone.\

---

Where are the prime localities to buy a car from ?
Seattle, SF. Portland, anyplace where the average temp is closer to 60 than 80+

---

Avoid cars that are habitually topped up, charged above 80 % often, Quick Charged, That have histories of High Battery Temps.

If the owner is a forum user.. check to see if they are Wasters.. .who tried ( but failed) to destroy their battery before the lease ran out,
or who didn't care " because it's a lease", etc . Or posted to Youtube their marathon 75 mph 400 mile Trip with quick charges every 2 hours
and battery temps in the red !

---

I no longer think a Quick Charge Jack is a plus !
At one point I would reject a car that didn't have it. Maybe not having it is a plus ! ??

--

A 2012 will get you heated seats and wheel.. and that is a big plus in the winter.
Would I pay 2000 for it. I'm thinking not. But I think a jug of hot water is a viable heater.
Do I want it.. sure!

--

2013's were only made for 6 months, and have problems. Skip the expense.

---

Use Autotrader.com and use Craigslist. Don't let dealers blow smoke up your ass.
There are TONS of used leafs on the market, more lease returns everyday... the depreciation is 50%
and the Nissan Dealers don't even want them on the lot ! Too much profit in the leases.. because They GET The REBATES !

For god sake don't buy a BLACK LEAF unless they really cut the price... or you live in a cold ass place
own a garage and a silver car cover.

---

First thing, get the Nissan EVSE converted for 220/110 operation...this will cut your charge time in half,
and charge at a rate that is ideal for battery life.

Realize that the charger is built into the car.. and NOTHING will increase the charge rate beyond what the
Leaf EVSE converted to 220 will do.. except quick chargers.. and those aren't good news in general.

2013 and newer will charge twice as fast on 220... but they aren't cheap.







I too am shopping for USED 2011/12 because the depreciation on a NEW leaf makes it stupid, IF you cannot use the Tax Credit.
( I can't ! )

Expect to buy a Decent 2011 Leaf for 12-14,500 . Get familiar with the terms of Nissan Leaf Certified Warranty. This will be difficult.
Demand the Booklet. You may have to call Nissan Corporate - Leaf After Sales Support to get one sent . All it will do is extend
the EV system warranty out to 100K miles.

Realize that NOTHING ON EARTH will extend the Loss of Capacity Warranty beyond 5 years/60 months. Nothing !
So what you buy is what you get- Battery wise.

Realize that a Used Car Saleman has a Wealth of Mis-Information. Nissan or not.
They will spout 8 year and gazillion mile battery warranty. That is for Defects NOT loss of capacity !
They will quote Hybrid Warranty.. doesn't apply to Leaf. They will quote Gas Warranty... sheesh !
They wont even know that Nissan has an EV certified warranty - ( Nissan Does). You decide what it is worth to you.

there is nothing wrong with using a car with 11, 10, 9, 8 bars.. just buy as much battery life as you can.
Every Bar is worth about $1000
If you are gambling on getting a warranty replacement, realize you are gambling.

Read and understand the Battery Wiki !

I will probably use mine well into the 5-10 year predicted life cycle, at reduced capacity.
Because I don't have to have the full range or high speeds. You may.

-- begin Rant--

Lets face it Tax Credit is Welfare for Rich Folks !. If you don't have a high income and high taxes.. the Credit doesn't exist !
No new leaf for me !

-- Rant over--

--

I am seeing a decent number of 2011's that still have 11 Bars - which is pretty typical for a Leaf with 20-30K miles. I have even seen a couple with 12 !
IF it has lived in a Moderate Climate And it hasn't been subjected to Overcharging and other High Battery Temp Events, it is worth buying.
Otherwise... why ?

I wont be buying anything will less than 11 bars, because I am buying long term use.

Realize the car will last 50-100 years.. and that batteries will come and go.
Think about it.
---

So, how do you tell about Climate and Over Temp ?

1. Read the Carfax... page 3 shows where the car was sold, where it was serviced, if it was a Lease or Rental.

So step one.. is cull out cars from Very Hot Places. Palm Springs and Fresno are VERY HOT . Just reject them.
San Jose is HOT. LA is HOT. Do your homework.

Many cars sold in Cal come from other states. Be Careful.. Read the Car Fax.

Step 2. Look at the Battery Bars

Step 3. Buy LeafSpy and an OBDII/ELM327 blue tooth reader, and use an android device ( I have Tab2 ) to check the vehicle events.
$30 bucks plus the tablet or phone.\

---

Where are the prime localities to buy a car from ?
Seattle, SF. Portland, anyplace where the average temp is closer to 60 than 80+

---

Avoid cars that are habitually topped up, charged above 80 % often, Quick Charged, That have histories of High Battery Temps.

If the owner is a forum user.. check to see if they are Wasters.. .who tried ( but failed) to destroy their battery before the lease ran out,
or who didn't care " because it's a lease", etc . Or posted to Youtube their marathon 75 mph 400 mile Trip with quick charges every 2 hours
and battery temps in the red !

---

I no longer think a Quick Charge Jack is a plus !
At one point I would reject a car that didn't have it. Maybe not having it is a plus ! ??

--

A 2012 will get you heated seats and wheel.. and that is a big plus in the winter.
Would I pay 2000 for it. I'm thinking not. But I think a jug of hot water is a viable heater.
Do I want it.. sure!

--

2013's were only made for 6 months, and have problems. Skip the expense.

---

Use Autotrader.com and use Craigslist. Don't let dealers blow smoke up your ass.
There are TONS of used leafs on the market, more lease returns everyday... the depreciation is 50%
and the Nissan Dealers don't even want them on the lot ! Too much profit in the leases.. because They GET The REBATES !

For god sake don't buy a BLACK LEAF unless they really cut the price... or you live in a cold ass place
own a garage and a silver car cover.

---

First thing, get the Nissan EVSE converted for 220/110 operation...this will cut your charge time in half,
and charge at a rate that is ideal for battery life.

--------------------

I welcome comments on this post from leaf owners of long standing, or other educated opinions.

With ya there...all in. You must have copied and pasted as you got a lot of text as duplicate. But I agree with everything you're saying.

I can take the tax credit, but would lease a new one. Thought I wanted a SV or SL, but the S is the same damn thing when you get right down to it. So a used one has to be quite a bit less.

Anyway, out of the few I've looked at not one had the nav history erased so you can see where it 'lived'. LOL.

There are quite a few '11's with 1 bar gone for about $12K. That may just be the ticket. If I could get one for $10K or so I think that would be a steal deal. Maybe I can get someone with a dealer license to take me to the auction a few times and buy one wholesale. <shrug>

Used car prices are much more varied than new car prices, so, negotiating is critical and checking out a car and determining if they will sell it at a reasonable price is time consuming. But a high percentage of Leafs were leased and will be on the used market, so prices will get softer. As my lease comes to an end it is very clear that my car is worth considerably less than my residual.