Excessive wear bill from Nissan (any recourse?)

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mbender

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 21, 2013
Messages
824
Location
The Great California Delta, and environs
Last week I was rudely notified (by certified mail) that I had many hundreds of dollars of "excessive wear" on the 2012 I recently turned in at the end of its two-year lease. I'm a bit upset for a number of reasons:

  1. There was no itemized list of what was wrong with it, or their corresponding cost(s)/charge(s). It also didn't list the "loyalty credit/allowance" that second time and up leasers are supposed to be given (which I have been told is $500).
  2. I had called my dealer a week or two before returning it and asked for a pre-return inspection, as I believed one was supposed to do. The dealer said bring it in and I did, waiting in the lobby for about an hour as they did the work. They came back with paperwork that said everything was fine. I left a little uncertain of what had transpired, and it was only later that I realized that they didn't do at all what I wanted, but rather did the perfunctory "multi-point inspection".
  3. Before this became clear to me though, I unexpectedly found a good lease offer at another dealer and took the offer. Because I had the "pre-return" inspection done and because I had the 2012 detailed before "trading it in", I had some confidence that I would not be charged for excessive wear.
  4. At trade-in I was told about the $500 credit, but was also told that I probably wouldn't require any of it because my car looked very good. I understood that they couldn't be held to that though, because it would be done by a third party.

Only after getting the bill and talking to someone at the phone number on it, did I fully realize that calling my dealer for the pre-return inspection was a big mistake, and that it was Nissan proper that I was supposed to call*. So of course part of my "upsetness" is directed at myself, but the dealer could also have figured out what I was asking for and explained that I had to call Nissan, and give me the number, etc.

Now admittedly, I did have some minor scratches from shopping carts, and it may just be that I wouldn't have been able to "fix" them enough to avoid charges even if I had known, but still, I feel that 1.) the charges are excessive, and 2.) the dealer could and should have pointed me in the correct direction.

Finally, regarding the "any recourse?" part of the title line, does anyone know if there's anything I can do to contest the high bill? Has anyone else been shocked by excessive wear charges, and what did you do? I did request an itemized list and was told that they'd send a copy, but in the meantime I'm trying to figure out what I'll do after I see it. Without proper accountability, what would keep these third parties (+ Nissan) from just "arbitrarily" handing out excessive wear bills to anyone who had not done the proper pre-return inspection?!

And a final fyi: I was told during the post-sale phone call that the balance due on the bill I saw did already have the $500 credit applied to it, even though it was not itemized or so noted on the bill.

* Yet another reason not to like the dealership model.
 
Just some suggestions, none of which may make a difference but then...just might:

  • 1- WRITE, not call, not text, not email, an objective (non-emotional) and short letter of the facts to whomever mailed you the notice. This has far more effect if drafted by an attorney on his/her letterhead, ending with what your desired result is. Have the attorney send copies to the dealers involved and the local BBB, and note that as cc:'s on the letter.
    2- Depending upon results of #1 above, file a formal report with the local BBB.
    3- Post an item on your social media pages.
    4- Post an item on all the Nissan social media and websites that will allow it, as you did on MNL but see note below.
    5- Send a complaint to KBB, Edmunds, TrueDelta, Consumer Reports, MSNBC, local newspaper and news station action lines, and anyone else in the slightest involved in consumer relations. Expect nothing but it might just be a slow news day for one or more of these and any interest could be helpful to your cause.
    6- Send a complaint to your State and Federal representatives.
    7- Send a complaint to your State dealer licensing agency. Even if Nissan financed, your liaison was the dealer.
    8- Send a complaint to your State bank and financial institution licensing agencies.

That should get you started.

NOTE: The contents of anything you send, post, or complain about should be absolutely non-emotional, thoroughly factual, as short as possible (nothing long ever gets read by those inundated with inbound communiques), and very specific.

Good luck!
 
mkjayakumar said:
If I may, what was the bill amount in question ?

+1

There MUST be some sort of recourse / appeal process built in to this process.
Surely you are not the first person in this position.
Published Guidelines?
Itemization?
Should be legally obligated to provide both.
 
When I saw the part about 'scratches deep enough to catch a fingernail' in the description from Nissan of what gets charged, I was appalled. They put soft, thin paint on the cars and then apply an unreasonably high standard on lease return inspections! And they don't allow touch-up paint! If most of the charge is for scratches, find a body shop that specializes in this, and has a good reputation.
 
mkjayakumar said:
If I may, what was the bill amount in question ?
Well, "many hundreds" is all I can be sure of at this point, because I don't really know if the $500 allowance has been applied yet. There's no indication on the bill either way, but the rep on the phone said that it had. The actual number next to the generic "Plus Excess Wear & Use" line is over $800, but apparently you also pay tax on that amount, so the final balance due is more than $900 (and < $1000).

So... if the credit has already been applied, the wear came to roughly $1400 and was reduced to $900.

And in the unlikely case that the credit has not yet been applied, the amount due could yet go from $900+ to perhaps $400 (adjusting for the tax reduction).

ps. I agree with you Leftie about the paint! I'm very upset about this and will do what I can... (Thank you, SalSam for the suggestions, many of which I hope to use.)
 
That works out to be about 50-60 dollars a month extra on a 24 month lease. That is a lot of damage! I'm glad I don't lease.
 
mbender said:
mkjayakumar said:
If I may, what was the bill amount in question ?
Well, "many hundreds" is all I can be sure of at this point, because I don't really know if the $500 allowance has been applied yet. There's no indication on the bill either way, but the rep on the phone said that it had. The actual number next to the generic "Plus Excess Wear & Use" line is over $800, but apparently you also pay tax on that amount, so the final balance due is more than $900 (and < $1000).

So... if the credit has already been applied, the wear came to roughly $1400 and was reduced to $900.

And in the unlikely case that the credit has not yet been applied, the amount due could yet go from $900+ to perhaps $400 (adjusting for the tax reduction).

ps. I agree with you Leftie about the paint! I'm very upset about this and will do what I can... (Thank you, SalSam for the suggestions, many of which I hope to use.)


I've leased two cars in the past; one I simply turned in and one I bought at lease end so that one doesn't count here --- the one I dropped off, had much lower miles than what was allowed but had been hit and fixed but the 'pre-inspection' aspect went fine ... deposit returned to me, etc. That one was on a Mazda Miata so another Japanese brand car; I think at the time they were actually more strict on damage, etc. but the car did look pretty good, Mazda sent their own lease return inspector and walked around several times in bright sunlight looking at the car, etc. but no surprises. I ended up not buying it because it was a non-metallic red so was concerned with irregular fading that typically occurs (eventually) with body repaired red cars as well as the repair was just OK, not great, etc. --- could have complained more, but it was a Mazda-certified shop so go figure.

I will agree with others here though that the paint and thickness of the metal/aluminum, etc. used on our LEAF's is quite thin on both counts --- my wife was driving ours and it was hit by a grocery cart (I wasn't there but definitely looks like what happened) and it dented the passenger fender right along the fender crease; nothing too nasty, but did leave a dent probably about 1 to 2 inches in length and scratched the paint off -- the shop that I use which does excellent work says it was actually in a 'good' spot that's easy to blend, etc. but it will run a little under $500 to fix ... you get a few of these and I can see it running into a thousand or more. To save fuel (supposedly) as well as costs to build, etc. a lot of the mfg. do this but probably more so with the LEAF. I do plan on keeping up with scratches, etc. as I'd like to keep it so its the price one pays ---- you'll also run into this when renting cars and they try to stick you with the previous renter's dents, etc. --- I always take date/time stamped photos with my smart phone now and note the minor stuff up front before taking the keys, its just the times we live in.

It's a shame how you're describing what happened when you turned in the car; the only recourse might have been to take it to your own body shop first as some stuff can indeed get buffed out or dents popped out, etc.; depends on the make and model but I've seen wonders. If they still give you that option may be worth it --- if its simply a 'pay up' then start squawking as others have said, can't hurt
 
Were you with the inspector when he looked at the car, or did you just turn it in?

This is a good lesson for turning in a leased car. To be sure that you don't get surprises like this situation:

1. Set up and schedule the lease pre-turn-in inspection with Nissan yourself, and be there with the person as they do the inspection. You'll need to contact the Alliance Inspection Management Center at 800.253.9026. This is the 3rd party that does Nissan's lease return inspections.
2. Go over the inspectors findings with him and have him show you the damage and excessive wear items that he found.
3. Make sure that you get a copy of the inspection report.
4. When you turn in the car, make sure that you do the walk around with the dealer person that is accepting back the car, and make sure you get a copy of that turn-in inspection, and that you agree with those findings as well.

It is not uncommon that after a car is turned in, it gets damaged in transit to the reconditioning or auction site. Having both the initial and turn-in inspection reports will help you fight a situation like this if it happens to you.

But for now, it is important that you get a copy of the initial and the turn-in inspection reports to see if the alleged excessive wear is noted there, if it is not, then you have a case, but if it is, then this could be an expensive lesson in how to properly turn in a lease vehicle.

Here is the official Nissan wear and tear PDF guide which is available online in your Nissan lease account: Nissan/Infiniti Lease wear and tear guide
 
Quick follow-up on this. Just yesterday I received the itemized list of repairs that I had requested before I paid a cent. It took a bit of head-scratching, but I think this is what it boils down to (and there may be good news at the end of the tunnel):

A bunch of small scratches were "touched up", "wet sanded", "refinished" or "repaired", but they were all listed under the NON CHARGEABLE (Normal Wear & Tear) section.

Then under the CHARGEABLE (Excess Wear and Tear) section were three items totaling $359.00, and then one (still mysterious) item listed as Missing/Replacement Req/Replace. The 'Part Description' is
Drive Battery Charging C
296M1-3NA0A
and the price listed (being charged to me) for that is ... ... ... $1,028.30*

So... does anyone know what that part is? (The description got cut off at the end 'C' above.) I don't, but I have a hunch about what it might be and what happened. Which is, when I returned the 2012, I left my 110V charger that came with it at home and just gave the brand new one that came with the 2015 to the dealer, specifically telling the salesman (or men) to put IT in the 2012 instead of the old used one.

I am guessing that the new unit from the 2015, still shiny and in its bag, never got placed back into the 2012, and I am being charged $1000 for its replacement with a new EVSE.

---> Ok, I just found the part number online and that is what it refers to, and thus the above is quite likely what happened.

So now I am soliciting advice on what to do next. Yes, I should have watched them place the new one from the 2015 in my old 2012, but I didn't. I assumed it was a simple enough request and that I was actually doing them and the new buyer a favor by "donating" a brand new EVSE to the two-year-old car. There's got to be a simple way to clear this up, but I thought I'd get some input here before contacting the dealer (Boardwalk in Redwood City, ahem) or Nissan Finance.

Thanks for any thoughts. Hopefully this will all be a memory soon.

* $1,028.30 for the 110V EVSE?!?!? Even the $764 here seems like a lot!
 
You can never believe a Dealer's word unless it is in writing. Initiate contact with the person who dealt with your lease return and explain the situation (hopefully jog his/her memory). If I am not mistaken, the L1 charging cord is aesthetically different between the older and newer Leafs. It could help your case. Good luck!
 
mbender said:
... Which is, when I returned the 2012, I left my 110V charger that came with it at home and just gave the brand new one that came with the 2015 to the dealer, specifically telling the salesman (or men) to put IT in the 2012 instead of the old used one.
...
Why would you do that?
The 2013 forward 120V EVSE is upgradeable to a much higher capability than the one on 2011 & 2012 :?:

You have got to be less trusting than this :shock:
 
TimLee said:
Why would you do that?

The 2013 forward 120V EVSE is upgradeable to a much higher capability than the one on 2011 & 2012. :?:
I didn't know that. I thought they were the same, and only charge(d) with 110V at home anyhow, so I didn't see the need. TBT, my home EVSE is somewhat tucked away and winds its way through a number of obstacles, so I thought "Why not just leave it as it is and return the new one with the 'old' car?".

(Without getting it in writing?)

All the paperwork was already done, and I informed them at the last minute (when my belongings were being transferred to the new car) to put the new EVSE in the 2012. Even if I had left the old one in the car, what's to have kept an unscrupulous employee from walking off with it, the cargo organizer, or any number of other unsecured items? Or them being innocently misplaced during cleaning or whatever? I don't see what I did as being inherently complex or 'wrong', but yes, I guess getting it in writing would have helped me now. :-\

TimLee said:
You have got to be less trusting than this :shock:
No good deed goes unpunished!

Edit: fixed grammatical errors/typos
 
I would unsnake the 2012 charger from your garage, take it back to the dealer and person you gave the new one to, ask them to reunite the old charger with the lease return people who are looking for it and give you back your new one they accepted from you.

Sales people are natural yes men. Can you....? "YES!" Wait, I wasn't even finished asking the question yet.
 
call them for an adjustment. the dealer DOES NOT DO the inspection. its done by independent 3rd party.

http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2014/01/lease-turn-ins-fyis.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

your charges are beyond ridiculous. imm, mine were very reasonable and I used every penny of my $500 incentive plus some.

$1400 of damage has to be something pretty considerable.

things they did not charge for.

mismatched tires. had 2 lrr Ecopias, two other "somethings" don't remember but they are different brand, slightly different size and so on and not even close to lrr

small dings. like a shopping cart incident. the aluminum side panels dent with no more than a dirty look so had 2 quarter sized "mini craters"

ya, call them. you are a returning customer, take advantage
 
Just adding this here to give an update, and for the record.

Yesterday I did 'unsnake' the old cord and EVSE and took them back to the dealer, whom I had previously contacted. Amazingly, and to my pleasant surprise, the whole transaction went very smoothly and quickly. He came out with the 2015 EVSE that got misplaced somehow (it should have been in/with my car), and we exchanged EVSEs in the zip-tight bags that they came in. It took all of five minutes and we left agreeing that we would have to work with Nissan to get the old one back to them and have my account credited (more specifically, just have the erroneous charges removed).

The only problem with it all going so smoothly and quickly is that I didn't think to get anything in writing (again! Grr.. :(). I did call NMAC and let them know, however. (Even though I called just after the 'old lease' department closed, I had another service rep add the pertinent facts/notes to my account. I will follow up first thing on Monday.) I also texted a few people about what happened, will email the salesman a request for an email receipt, and I am writing it here, so I do/will have some written record of what happened. I'm 90+ percent confident that it will all be resolved amicably now -- it's just a matter of time. It would be great if it could be done in time to consider it an early Xmas present!
 
mbender said:
Just adding this here to give an update, and for the record.

Yesterday I did 'unsnake' the old cord and EVSE and took them back to the dealer, whom I had previously contacted. Amazingly, and to my pleasant surprise, the whole transaction went very smoothly and quickly. He came out with the 2015 EVSE that got misplaced somehow (it should have been in/with my car), and we exchanged EVSEs in the zip-tight bags that they came in. It took all of five minutes and we left agreeing that we would have to work with Nissan to get the old one back to them and have my account credited (more specifically, just have the erroneous charges removed).

The only problem with it all going so smoothly and quickly is that I didn't think to get anything in writing (again! Grr.. :(). I did call NMAC and let them know, however. (Even though I called just after the 'old lease' department closed, I had another service rep add the pertinent facts/notes to my account. I will follow up first thing on Monday.) I also texted a few people about what happened, will email the salesman a request for an email receipt, and I am writing it here, so I do/will have some written record of what happened. I'm 90+ percent confident that it will all be resolved amicably now -- it's just a matter of time. It would be great if it could be done in time to consider it an early Xmas present!


glad it worked out and I would send them an email to verify that the exchange went ok. their acknowledgment should be more than enough. NMAC is a much better entity to deal with than your dealer but it sounds like your dealer is working for you
 
I was just reminded to wrap this up and, fortunately, I can put a ribbon on top.

That's because a few weeks ago I got a call from NMAC saying that the inspection shop had finally received the EVSE from the dealer, and the $1000 charge in the excessive wear (to 'replace' the formerly missing EVSE) was reversed. And the $359 that was left was covered by the $500 allowance granted to leasers who "re-lease", so I owed nothing.

The calls from a collection agency had stopped a week or two prior to that, so I had a clue things were in motion and going my way. And just last week, I checked my credit report and there was no trace of anything regarding the whole incident (thank goodness), so, all's well that ends well, I guess. A bit of a headache for a while, but it felt good when it was over!
 
mbender said:
I was just reminded to wrap this up and, fortunately, I can put a ribbon on top.

That's because a few weeks ago I got a call from NMAC saying that the inspection shop had finally received the EVSE from the dealer, and the $1000 charge in the excessive wear (to 'replace' the formerly missing EVSE) was reversed. And the $359 that was left was covered by the $500 allowance granted to leasers who "re-lease", so I owed nothing.

The calls from a collection agency had stopped a week or two prior to that, so I had a clue things were in motion and going my way. And just last week, I checked my credit report and there was no trace of anything regarding the whole incident (thank goodness), so, all's well that ends well, I guess. A bit of a headache for a while, but it felt good when it was over!

this was my experience as well. I went to dealer in order to schedule inspection only and left with new car. but inspection dinged my for things I was unaware of including windshield replacement and the "most" I could have had as far as damage might have been a tiny star in the corner somewhere as I could not remember any damage at all anywhere that amounted to anything. but they waived it so all was good.
 
I had a good experience when returning our 2015 Nissan Leaf.

The inspector came and did not find any chargeable damages Still the final letter I received showed over $350 in damages.

I called NMAC and they waived the fee for the damages and also the difference between my last lease payment and the disposition fee. Basically they reduce the final bill to zero. But they already had an extra lease payment.
 
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