iPlug
Posts: 416
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 25 Apr 2016
Location: Rocklin, CA

Re: Leaf Price / Discount discussion thread

Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:38 am

Have a lot of friends and associates (>+20) with M3s and so far looking to have few if any problems. Warranty coverage notwithstanding.

For us the M3 SR+ and the 40kWh SV Leaf are the best value combo for our personal travel needs.

Different folks, different strokes, YMMV...

Also, I get almost precisely 200Wh/mi on our SR+ driving a bit more aggressively than our current or prior Leafs and even the prior Plug-in Prius, so beat the EPA estimates the most in the M3. Have not driven long enough to test efficiency in the Bolt, Kona, or Niro with my same driving patterns/habits.
'19 Model 3 SR+ (own), '19 Leaf SV (leased), '12 Plug-in Prius (sold 3/19), '16 Leaf SV (prior lease), 11.43kW Solar PV (16MWh/yr real production), 20.5 SEER/13.0 HSPF ducted air-source heat pump, 3.70 UEF heat pump water heater, Induction Cooktop

SageBrush
Posts: 4610
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Leaf Price / Discount discussion thread

Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:26 pm

iPlug wrote: Also, I get almost precisely 200Wh/mi on our SR+ driving a bit more aggressively than our current or prior Leafs and even the prior Plug-in Prius, so beat the EPA estimates the most in the M3. Have not driven long enough to test efficiency in the Bolt, Kona, or Niro with my same driving patterns/habits.
Nice !

I've been averaging about 175 Wh/mile for my city driving but I'm sure it will rise as AC use increases through the summer.
I'm most happy to have seen 0 mile vampire loss over 12 - 18 hours the last couple of days. It is too early to declare victory over that annoyance but I am optimistic. I LOVE OTA updates.

Next on my wish list: a better behaving web browser
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 854
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Leaf Price / Discount discussion thread

Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:54 pm

The SR+ is 55/56kWh? I know Tesla just posts range now, not battery capacity on the 3.

To hit the 240 miles, what watt per mile figure do you need to hit? If you can do 200 watts,or 5 miles/kWh can you do 275 miles on a charge to empty?
2019 SV Plus Silver
2013 Leaf SV
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max distance on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max distance on 19 Leaf: 242 Highway 4.5 miles/kWh (4.9 KWh remaining)

iPlug
Posts: 416
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 25 Apr 2016
Location: Rocklin, CA

Re: Leaf Price / Discount discussion thread

Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:04 pm

SageBrush wrote:I've been averaging about 175 Wh/mile for my city driving...I'm most happy to have seen 0 mile vampire loss over 12 - 18 hours the last couple of days...
Great numbers and progress on the vampire drain. I think I'm down to about 1 mile/day, but haven't had a chance for the car to be idle for more than a day recently to find out.
DougWantsALeaf wrote:The SR+ is 55/56kWh? I know Tesla just posts range now, not battery capacity on the 3.

To hit the 240 miles, what watt per mile figure do you need to hit? If you can do 200 watts,or 5 miles/kWh can you do 275 miles on a charge to empty?
Apparently the SR+ battery is 62 kWh and ~55 kWh useable. I have never charged the vehicle all the way to 100% max user capacity nor taken down close to 0. I should have a better feel for this in a few weeks when we take our first road trip.

So it seems one would need 230 Wh/mi to hit 240 range. I would expect this to happen at freeway legal speeds based on my driving habits.

My current running 200 Wh/mi is mostly 0-52 mph on streets with a few stop lights and a couple stop signs, 7 miles round trip commute.
'19 Model 3 SR+ (own), '19 Leaf SV (leased), '12 Plug-in Prius (sold 3/19), '16 Leaf SV (prior lease), 11.43kW Solar PV (16MWh/yr real production), 20.5 SEER/13.0 HSPF ducted air-source heat pump, 3.70 UEF heat pump water heater, Induction Cooktop

SageBrush
Posts: 4610
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Leaf Price / Discount discussion thread

Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:29 pm

DougWantsALeaf wrote:The SR+ is 55/56kWh? I know Tesla just posts range now, not battery capacity on the 3.

To hit the 240 miles, what watt per mile figure do you need to hit? If you can do 200 watts,or 5 miles/kWh can you do 275 miles on a charge to empty?
EPA combined city/highway * 0.88

The 0.88 fudge factor is present to discount the charging losses that EPA includes in overall fuel economy but is not relevant to a range test.

So ... EPA is 133 MPGe = 253 Wh/mile including charging losses
= 253*0.88 = 222 Wh/mile to get the EPA 240 mile range.

We can also calculate the usable capacity when new:
240 miles * 222 Wh/mile = 53.28 kWh
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

cwerdna
Posts: 9590
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Leaf Price / Discount discussion thread

Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:42 am

Weird... a local dealer (I don't not like them as we've had a bad experience w/their sales dept as have two other folks I know who don't know each other) sent me one of their marketing emails. One of their deals are CPO '19 Leafs SV for $21,995. They claim they have 10 available at this price with under 1K miles each and "100,000 mile warranty" included. I wonder if they were test drive vehicles or something that the dealer bought and took the tax credit on?
Last edited by cwerdna on Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 12811
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Leaf Price / Discount discussion thread

Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:49 am

Can you get any build dates?
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

cwerdna
Posts: 9590
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Leaf Price / Discount discussion thread

Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:53 am

^^^
No idea. I guess so, if I visited the dealer and asked to look at the cars. Not sure I would bother though as I'm not in the market. Sorry.

Maybe someone else in my area might be in the market and thus investigate?

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 12811
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Leaf Price / Discount discussion thread

Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:06 am

I'm wondering if they were prototypes or early production beta test cars.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

cwerdna
Posts: 9590
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Leaf Price / Discount discussion thread

Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:09 am

LeftieBiker wrote:I'm wondering if they were prototypes or early production beta test cars.
I doubt they'd be prototypes or ones that aren't meant for actual customers/fit for sale.

I don't think an automaker could legally sell those. AFAIK, those have to go to the crusher or have to stay within an automaker to never be sold or parted out to real customers. There could be some major legal liability problems or support problems down the road, esp. if they differed from actual production cars.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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