Considering purchasing first time. Have some last questions please.

Hello wonderful folks. Looking to first time purchase a Leaf: It would either be a SV or SL model.
I would very much be indebted if you guys can share your wealth of knowledge and wisdom. I have learned so much in here the last week and read the concerns, deals, incentives, opinions: I have a few last questions:

1. Battery: Am I correct in my conclusion that the biggest factor most have is the battery? It's distance capacity and longevity. For the SL or SV model, I am reassured I won't have to spend (considerably more $$ than a new transmission in a conventional car) after a few years because of the 8 yr/ 100k warranty on the battery of 9 out of 12 bars which is 75%. If that is correct, then the 55 mile roundtrip daily commute will be a perfect fit for us not just when brand new, but years into it.

2. Longevity of the whole car: We are value minded vehicle owners that keep a vehicle until it dies, at least over 13 yrs, 200k miles. I'm hoping the Leaf can last that long and some feedback and facts from long term owners specifically on that point would be wonderful. I'm very concerned so many Leafs come back from the lease and there is a surplus of 3 yr. old Leafs out in the secondary market. Is there something I don't know about the would be incompatible to my plans on daily use of the Leaf for many years???

3. Lease vs. Purchase: If we are happy with the battery concern and no need to "see what's new 2 or 3 yrs" to update battery capacity or update to the newest models, we would like to purchase instead of lease. Especially with all the incentives going on this time. I have been advised multiple times to just lease and have the option to turn it in when the battery poops out in 3 yrs. and get the updated versions. But again, IF the distance capacity stays around 80 miles (below the marketed 107 mile range) for the LONG life of the battery due to its warranty, and IF the electric motor doesn't dramatically underperform after just a few years, we accept the distance of the current battery so why lease instead of buy?
Are those IFs not reliable for the Leaf??

4. Upholstery SV or SL: We can't go cloth due to kids spilling stuff, sweaty and muddy activities, furry golden retriever. It would get too dirty, stained, and smelly fast. All our vehicles have leather and it costs premium but it works perfect in keeping the stain, stink, and fur off.
I am very disappointed that the leather option on all Leafs only comes in black. I live in So.Cal and its hot most of the time and blazing the rest. Black interior is considerably hotter compared to a light interior, both in cabin air temp. and to the touch (sometimes, black leather can't even be sat on when parked outside in the sun). Because of that, I am now considering the PET "suede" light tan SV option instead of the SL.
Based on my reasoning for the needs of a leather I wrote above; is the synthetic plastic suede material stain resistant, considerably impermeable so that it hold spills, mud, ketchup up so so that it can be wiped off and not seep into the interior padding, and durable like leather so that it can be a good solution??
All I know of "suede" is that it absorbs liquids, stains easily, and is the "delicate" underside of leather.
Sorry, I know I'm being very specific but just my luck, the dealership I went to to test drive the LEAF didn't have a single SL or SV model to compare to!!

Thank you in advance to any and all replies and wisdom to allow me to make an informed decision.
Ken

1) In the past, being below 9 bars meant you were below ~70% capacity remaining (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=13192). The capacity warranty is still for 9 bars but 8 years/100K miles on the '16+ SV and SL.

You can d/l the manuals and warranty booklet from https://owners.nissanusa.com/nowners/navigation/manualsGuide.

I don't know that Nissan has ever publicly stated that this 9 bars on a '16 SV/SL still corresponds to ~70% remaining.

2) There aren't that many very high mileage Leafs nor ones that could be that old since it came out Dec 2010. http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=20275&p=431911&hilit=switch#p431911 is the highest mileage one in the US we know of. http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=21961&p=462072#p462072 was his last post.

There always is a chance (as with any car) that something expensive could fail and make it "not worth it" to fix. Examples off the top of my head: motor/reduction gear assembly, on-board charger, something in the PDM, brake master cylinder (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=21203).

3) Battery won't "poop" out in 3 years with the "lizard" battery. My used '13 Leaf was built 5/2013 and doesn't have the "lizard" battery but still has all 12 capacity bars at 38.2K miles. But, judging from Leaf Spy stats, I'm getting closer to losing 1 capacity bar.

How cool/hot your area is will greatly influence how quickly you lose capacity. Mine's a hotter part of the SF Bay Area but not the hottest (e.g. not Concord, Walnut Creek, Livermore, etc. and unfortunately not cool like Half Moon Bay, Pacifica, City of SF, etc.)

Some of the lease vs. buy concerns are because of vehicles like the supposed 238-mile range Bolt. Look at its price (http://www.chevrolet.com/bolt-ev-electric-vehicle.html). Does it make sense to pay for a new '16 Leaf SV or SL now when something like that is shipping soon? Something like could have a lot more utility due to its range autonomy. What do you think the value of EPA-rated 107 mile pure EV will look like once that is shipping?

4) I already answered the cloth seat question at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=472207#p472207.

People complained to Nissan about the light cloth interior when it was the only choice about it getting dirty too easily. I was at a meeting w/Kadota-san in Dec 2011 when this was brought up. Unfortunately, IMHO, Nissan went overboard by providing black as the other choices, instead of just something not quite as dark.

I personally don't like the black interior much (looks worse, to me) but I now own my Leaf and didn't want to have a soiled/dingy looking interior after I put more years on a used Leaf, so I bit the bullet and got the black cloth interior.

Leasing vs buying: as long as you are sure you want to keep the car, the incentives make buying better - IF you have enough income to qualify for the full $7500 tax credit. When you lease, Nissan gets the credit and applies it all as a larger downpayment. When you buy, you have to qualify to get the credit yourself. People like me pretty much have to lease because of this: I have enough savings and monthly income to buy the car, but because I'm retired my taxable income isn't that high. I do normally advise people to lease, but in your case the incentives make buying seem the better choice.

Having had both 2011 with recycled plastic cloth interior (light color) and 2015 with black leather, I will confirm the leather is easier to clean, but hotter. The cloth seats were relative!y easy to clean, but not as easy as leather. The good news is that the air conditioning has no trouble coo!ing the black interior--start it remotely 15 minutes before you want to leave to avoid getting into a hot car. I like the extra features only included with SL so I had no choice except to settle for the black interior when I purchased the 2015.

I was able to make my 52-mile round trip commute (26 miles each way) at 8 capacity bars on the original battery in the 2011 until Nissan replaced the battery under warranty. You should have no trouble making your 55-mile commute for many years with the larger capacity and longer life of the new battery. The "lizard" battery in the 2015 is still at 12 capacity bars after 20 months and 29,300 miles so it is doing much better than the original and rep!acement batteries in the 2011 (although Leaf Spy numbers indicate it may not be too long before it loses the first capacity bar).

The LEAFs are generally reliable so I did not hesitate to order the 2015 and purchase it with intent to keep it for many years. The 2011 was very reliable and I planned to keep it for many years. Leasing is best for people concerned about depreciation as longer range cars become available or for those who cannot take full advantage of tax credits. Purchasing is fine if you plan to keep the car for several years.

Gerry

I started a new job in April 2016 with a 54 mile round trip commute, so I like the OP thought it would be a perfect fit for a Leaf. I found a local dealer with a 2013 S model with 20K+ miles and took it out for an extended test drive. I charged it overnight and with a full charge went to work followed by an appointment and then back to the dealer with 16 miles left on the Guess o Meter (GOM). That showed me that even after a few years it should still work for me. I also decided that the S model without cruise control was not an option for me because it is way to easy to speed without the drive train noise of an ICE car.

I looked for a used SV or SL and found a 2015 SV with 428 miles that was new about a month before I bought it in May 2016. My Leaf is great and has been our main in town car with over 8K miles already in 5 months.

Bottom line, I have a similar commute and have been very happy with my 2015 SV. You should do well with a Leaf.

Bill

The battery is a big factor. Irvine is a warm climate, so your battery will degrade faster there than in a cold climate, even with the improved battery chemistry. There are a lot of factors to range. Highway speeds get shorter range than in-town or stop-and-go driving. Air conditioning also reduces range. With all of that said, I'd guess that an 8 year old 30kWh battery should still be OK for your 55 mile commute on the highway, but that's just my guess. No one has enough data to predict what you will get after 13 years, however.

In general, Nissans have proven to be dependable cars. They are not the best and far from the worst. The Leaf is better than most Nissans, too, in part because it has no gas engine, so less to go wrong. We haven't heard of many problems with the electronics, but there have been a few. Unfortunately, any problem with electronics out of warranty is expensive.

I bought my Leaf and don't regret it. Yet the Leaf depreciates faster than many other cars, That might sway you to consider a used Leaf (great value). EV technology and auto technology in general is evolving quickly. If you love gadgets and want the latest, that might encourage you to lease rather than buy, so you can get new features every three years. But that isn't the cheapest approach.

So why NOT buy a used Leaf? Assuming that the car checks out well, a 3-year-old Leaf will have a slightly smaller battery (24kWh rather than 30kWh). For your commute, that my not matter. The key is to check out the battery capacity before buying. We like the Android app called LeafSpyPro for doing this. It works together with a $10 OBDII-to-bluetooth ELM327 adapter and lets you query the state of charge and health of the battery. You can buy an adapter from ebay, amazon, or dx.com.

As for upholstery, my advice is to cover the seats with quality after-market seat covers of your choice and plan to replace them every few years. That way, you can get exactly what you like, in the color you like, and don't have to worry too much if they get ripped by a claw or soiled by a spill.

Bob

Thank you very much to each and every one of you.
Your answers were thought out and were all filled with wisdom and even lots of easy to click links for further investigation.

I'm 'sold' that the Leaf is a perfect fit for us as one of our vehicles. Your opinions on the lease vs. buy, timing and potential valuations of the Leaf vs. when the Bolt hit the streets, maximizing the federal tax credit are the final considerations.

I'm very encouraged all of you had good experiences in the longevity of the LEAf.

One of the dealers I submitted a quote request (True Car) of all things replied with a guaranteed quote for a new SL with $2k premium option package, total MSRP $39,655.

Their first guaranteed reply quote is $5188 dealer discount and the $4000 NMAC financing incentive (which they call "Nissan Leaf Captive CASH") for a total purchase price of $30,542. The destination and dealer fee is included in that price but not taxes.
THIS IS A GOOD STARTING POINT I THOUGHT, CORRECT??

I have emailed them and asked to convert that offer int a 3 yr. lease offer with option to buy at the end of the lease and I want to see the end cost of the lease then purchase the same vehicle would be exactly the same, worse, or better?

We can pull the trigger soon but people's suggestion that there is a high probability that the LEaf prices will go even lower once the Bolt hits the show rooms is valid.

BillHolz said:

2013 S model with 20K+ miles and took it out for an extended test drive.

...I also decided that the S model without cruise control was not an option for me because it is way to easy to speed without the drive train noise of an ICE car.

Click to expand...

Nissan finally made cruise control standard on the S trim starting with the '15 model year.

Agree w/virtually everything Bob said.

kzapanta said:

One of the dealers I submitted a quote request (True Car) of all things replied with a guaranteed quote for a new SL with $2k premium option package, total MSRP $39,655.

Their first guaranteed reply quote is $5188 dealer discount and the $4000 NMAC financing incentive (which they call "Nissan Leaf Captive CASH") for a total purchase price of $30,542. The destination and dealer fee is included in that price but not taxes.
THIS IS A GOOD STARTING POINT I THOUGHT, CORRECT??

Click to expand...

I haven't followed pricing, but that sounds pretty good. At first I thought https://www.facebook.com/groups/seattlenissanleaf/permalink/1304560899575344/?hc_location=ufi which points to http://driveoregon.org/eugeneev/ was too good to be true, but your deal sounds even better.

kzapanta said:

I have emailed them and asked to convert that offer int a 3 yr. lease offer with option to buy at the end of the lease and I want to see the end cost of the lease then purchase the same vehicle would be exactly the same, worse, or better?

Click to expand...

In theory (assuming significant incentive differences), the cost of leasing for 3 years then buying it out at the end (which would be the residual price) should be higher than buying outright because you're paying interest (reflected by the money factor: https://help.edmunds.com/hc/en-us/articles/206102517-Car-Leasing-Basics). However, there is the possibility the residual is set too high and later Nissan/NMAC offers significant discounts on buying out your leased car. This happened for me and I had no idea that would happen near lease end. I'd planned to turn it in since $20,601 + tax (before discount) to buy my 2 year Leaf? Hahaha. I knew it wasn't going to be worth that much at lease end, going into it.

It still might not be a good price vs. a comparable used one.

I indicated my numbers at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=21120&p=446797&hilit=%2414%2C401#p446797. http://insideevs.com/nissan-announces-up-to-7000-credit-for-buying-your-leased-leaf/ was applicable to me, back then. My saga in buying my current used Leaf is at:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=429492#p429492
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=430825#p430825

Nissan learned a hard lesson with the 2013 leases, and starting in 2014 or 2015 they set the residuals at a more or less fixed 30% (roughly) of the car's MSRP. So almost all of the 2015-2016 SV residuals seem to be in the $12k range, giving you a better buyout price than Cwerdna, I, or anyone else with a 2013 got. Of course, there's always a downside, and in this case it's the lease payments. My $149 a month (plus $10 tax on the extensions) lease is the upside of the high residual, which itself makes for a car priced way too high to buy without massive discounts. People leasing now pay through the nose for leases, but have an affordable residual. You should be able to get a good idea of the lease payment on the SL if you assume a residual of $12000-$13000.

My 2 cents is to wait a couple of months and buy a Chevy Bolt. So much more mileage and the battery thermal management is superior. Cost to buy is the same. Nissan has to catch up. Doesn't make sense to buy a lessor car for the same money. We love our leafs but... Bolt is now a better option.

Evoforce said:

My 2 cents is to wait a couple of months and buy a Chevy Bolt. So much more mileage and the battery thermal management is superior. Cost to buy is the same. Nissan has to catch up. Doesn't make sense to buy a lessor car for the same money. We love our leafs but... Bolt is now a better option.

Click to expand...

We won't really know if it's the better choice until a few years pass. If it proves non-glitchy and robust, then it will be the better choice for most people.

Evoforce said:

My 2 cents is to wait a couple of months and buy a Chevy Bolt. So much more mileage and the battery thermal management is superior. Cost to buy is the same. Nissan has to catch up. Doesn't make sense to buy a lessor car for the same money. We love our leafs but... Bolt is now a better option.

Click to expand...

No. I highly doubt the cost to buy will be the same. It'd be nutty to pay MSRP on any Leaf now. OP was quoted about $30.5K purchase price before tax on the highest trim Leaf but also before $7.5K Federal tax credit.

Chevy Bolt is going to start at $38K before tax credit. Do you really think they'll slap on $7.5K of incentives/discounts at the get go? I highly doubt it. So, assuming it sells close to MSRP, it's going to be a lot more expensive.

I do see $4K NMAC cash offer at http://www.choosenissan.com/los-angeles-area/electric-car/?next=cn.dsp.featuredoffers.dropdownlist_electric-car.ssp_featuredoffers.

That said, the range of the Bolt, if it lives up to their 238 mile EPA rating claim will blow the doors off any Leaf. And yes, it sucks the Leaf has no battery thermal management.

Once Bolt ships, Nissan may need to discount even further in markets where the Bolt's launch/strongest markets in order to keep Leaf sales from falling like a rock.

cwerdna said:

Evoforce said:

My 2 cents is to wait a couple of months and buy a Chevy Bolt. So much more mileage and the battery thermal management is superior. Cost to buy is the same. Nissan has to catch up. Doesn't make sense to buy a lessor car for the same money. We love our leafs but... Bolt is now a better option.

Click to expand...

No. I highly doubt the cost to buy will be the same. It'd be nutty to pay MSRP on any Leaf now. OP was quoted about $30.5K purchase price before tax on the highest trim Leaf but also before $7.5K Federal tax credit.

Chevy Bolt is going to start at $38K before tax credit. Do you really think they'll slap on $7.5K of incentives/discounts at the get go? I highly doubt it. So, assuming it sells close to MSRP, it's going to be a lot more expensive.

I do see $4K NMAC cash offer at http://www.choosenissan.com/los-angeles-area/electric-car/?next=cn.dsp.featuredoffers.dropdownlist_electric-car.ssp_featuredoffers.

That said, the range of the Bolt, if it lives up to their 238 mile EPA rating claim will blow the doors off any Leaf. And yes, it sucks the Leaf has no battery thermal management.

Once Bolt ships, Nissan may need to discount even further in markets where the Bolt's launch/strongest markets in order to keep Leaf sales from falling like a rock.

Click to expand...

I didn't catch that it was that price without the $7,500 government discount. But basically the question is then... Is more than double the range and better battery management system for longevity worth $7,500? In my situation, yes.

LeftieBiker said:

Evoforce said:

My 2 cents is to wait a couple of months and buy a Chevy Bolt. So much more mileage and the battery thermal management is superior. Cost to buy is the same. Nissan has to catch up. Doesn't make sense to buy a lessor car for the same money. We love our leafs but... Bolt is now a better option.

Click to expand...

We won't really know if it's the better choice until a few years pass. If it proves non-glitchy and robust, then it will be the better choice for most people.

Click to expand...

I think if you have to pay the full 37K for the Leaf now, it would be foolish to buy the Leaf and not the Bolt. However, the Leaf seems to be heavily discounted now. It seems the dealership is running out of SV and having only some SL left and mostly the S version. I just bought the SV with Premium package with road and first aid kits for 29100K OTD. Basically it was 26K with tax and fees. With CA and Fed rebate, it would bring it down to 19K to own. Not to mention the awesome 0% financing to boot. I think I could've probably bargain a little lower, but its done.

I was going to wait for the Bolt, but I figured it would be at least 10K more than the Leaf (some options are 3.5K more). The higher range wouldn't do me much good except charge less often. My daily commute is only 40 miles and max (once in a while) being 120 miles, but where I go have charge points. I wouldn't take either the Leaf or the Bolt on long road trip anyway. I don't think the technology has matured enough for that.

I rather save that 10K and get the Leaf while discounted. However, the Bolt looks pretty slick but it's still not the Tesla. If you can make your daily commute with the Leaf and have some left over, you are probably wasting your morning on the Bolt. Just my 2 cents.

Thank you again for all the great insights and continued wisdom and new perspectives. I am very grateful for each of them. I'm sorry I cannot respond real time. I basically have late night to devote to my EV research, responding to dealership email offers, getting my learning curve up to par.

Answers: If this is wrong, please don't be afraid to tell me. I can take it.
"Bolt is a better option because it will be the same price and longer miles":
1. The quoted price of $37k for the Bolt has the $7500 federal credit applied to it. So MSRP is actually $42.5k for the incoming Bolt. I agree with cwerdna that there will be no reason for them to sell for large discounts at the start. Nissan is already selling for large discount and good probability in a few months will be even lower.
2. No I would never buy at MSRP for a Leaf or any car. The lowest price I have so far is $9500 off MSRP and looking for more.
3. Bolt is GM. I don't trust GM. Regardless of each person's opinion on the brand, the Bolt will be brand new. I don't want to be the test subject or the test year for a new product. Leaf is 6 years old; based on this forum and other data, have a large happy ownership pool. Also, one of my original questions was focused on longevity experience with the Leaf, and it has been graciously answered sufficiently for my peace of mind. The Bolt opens all those same questions again plus a cans of worms since no one knows first hand knowledge.
4. Also from cwerdna; time is on the purchaser's side at the moment to either actually feel and test the Bolt and/or have Nissan lower the Leaf price after the new competition hits the streets. Its a win win for people who would like the Bolt because that's another new option the population can choose, and it will force other brands to step up technology and lower current inventory prices for people who would still be happy with the Leaf and 100 mile limit.
"How about a used Leaf?"
It won't have the new battery capacity, updated tech., and warranty and that's a key factor for us in getting a Leaf. Yes, good deals on those used cars right now for sure, but I think its because of this same exact factor.

Another dealership quoted not as good as a purchase price but says it can guarantee the buy option after a 3 yr. lease to be total cost (lease payments, down payment, residual) of $23,200 with a $256 a month lease payment. The next thing I have to do is learn the leasing terms so I can understand the mechanics of the buyback option at the end since I have never leased a vehicle.
I don't think this is attractive because he said that's with the tax credits already included which would make it $33,200 total cost for Ca residents.

Updates:
The deal of total $9500 off a purchase is still the best I have gotten. No answer yet on converting that to a lease breakdown. That is my lead horse in the race and hoping the lease figures will be good too.
After all my questions and your answers about the black interior, my wife told me. "oh, I actually like the black interior". smh.

FYI. A coworker recently got a lease on the Fiat EV for a crazy $49 a month lease. I do not know how much he had to put down to get that monthly payment but WOW! Not an option for our size family but dang.

I have learned on the previous replys that on a lease, Nissan will get the $7500 Fed. then apply it towards the down payment up front. The Ca. $2500 REBATE check I still get if qualified and have funding on the no matter if its a lease instead of purchase correct?

Thanks all. You guys are amazing!

Info on the $49 a month Fiat. I have local Fiat dealerships pop up in my search results too with that price.

http://www.freeby50.com/2015/08/is-49-monthly-lease-for-fiat-500e-good.html

kzapanta said:

Answers: If this is wrong, please don't be afraid to tell me. I can take it.
"Bolt is a better option because it will be the same price and longer miles":
1. The quoted price of $37k for the Bolt has the $7500 federal credit applied to it. So MSRP is actually $42.5k for the incoming Bolt. I agree with cwerdna that there will be no reason for them to sell for large discounts at the start. Nissan is already selling for large discount and good probability in a few months will be even lower.

Click to expand...

Your statement re: Bolt pricing is incorrect. MSRP starting at $37,495 is BEFORE $7,500 tax credit. See http://www.chevrolet.com/bolt-ev-electric-vehicle.html, http://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2016/sep/0920-bolt-pricing.html and http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1106177_2017-chevy-bolt-ev-price-electric-car-starts-at-37495-before-incentives-as-promised.

kzapanta said:

3. Bolt is GM. I don't trust GM. Regardless of each person's opinion on the brand, the Bolt will be brand new. I don't want to be the test subject or the test year for a new product. Leaf is 6 years old; based on this forum and other data, have a large happy ownership pool. Also, one of my original questions was focused on longevity experience with the Leaf, and it has been graciously answered sufficiently for my peace of mind. The Bolt opens all those same questions again plus a cans of worms since no one knows first hand knowledge.

Click to expand...

I hear you. My family's had 3 GM cars before. None were reliable. We don't buy American brands anymore. Volt reliability has been decent, OTOH.

kzapanta said:

FYI. A coworker recently got a lease on the Fiat EV for a crazy $49 a month lease. I do not know how much he had to put down to get that monthly payment but WOW! Not an option for our size family but dang.

Click to expand...

There were some really good deals on Fiat 500e leases last year: http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1097299_group-buy-of-fiat-500e-electric-cars-ignites-feeding-frenzy-100-plus-bought. I'd put $0 down on a lease since if you total the car, you won't get any of your payments nor down payment back. Not worth the risk and savings on interest for a "feel good" low monthly payment.

kzapanta said:

I have learned on the previous replys that on a lease, Nissan will get the $7500 Fed. then apply it towards the down payment up front. The Ca. $2500 REBATE check I still get if qualified and have funding on the no matter if its a lease instead of purchase correct?

Click to expand...

Correct on both. However, for CVRP you must have any original lease of at least 30 months or buy new and keep for at least 30 months. See https://cleanvehiclerebate.org/eng/eligibility-guidelines.

kzapanta said:

Another dealership quoted not as good as a purchase price but says it can guarantee the buy option after a 3 yr. lease to be total cost (lease payments, down payment, residual) of $23,200 with a $256 a month lease payment. The next thing I have to do is learn the leasing terms so I can understand the mechanics of the buyback option at the end since I have never leased a vehicle.
I don't think this is attractive because he said that's with the tax credits already included which would make it $33,200 total cost for Ca residents.

Click to expand...

Generally speaking, normally, the residual IS the price to buy the vehicle at lease end. It is determined at the beginning and will be on your lease contract. One way of providing cheaper leases is to make the residual high. Low residual == higher monthly payments and higher total cost of lease.

If they mispredict and the residual is higher than the market value of the vehicle, you win. Let's say it's $23K and the vehicle's worth $26K. You can pay the $23K to buy it (since it was already pre-determined) then turn around and sell it for $26K. If the residual's $23K but you can get a used one for $12K, unless the car has some major damage or major wear/tear or something where you'll get dinged BIG TIME, you just turn the car back in and possibly go buy a used one yourself for $12K.

The reason why I say generally is because of the unusual (to me) case of Nissan/NMAC providing discounts on the buyout some of the time. That used to be handled by NMAC. From some other threads, the process may have changed and it might be handled by dealers now. No idea if the discounts are any good and what wiggle room the dealer has.


I've only skimmed http://www.leaseguide.com/lease07/, but from what I've skimmed, it looks accurate. http://www.edmunds.com/car-leasing/quick-guide-to-leasing-a-new-car.html should help. https://www.nissanfinance.com/nis_helpunauth?ln=en#top might help.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=2192 is what part of lease contract looks like. Yes, there's lots of weird alien terminology. I've only ever leased 1 car in my life, my former Leaf.

Just to play Devil's Advocate for the Bolt for a moment: GM is a lot like Toyota. The main difference is that GM has always had mediocre build and design quality, while Toyota's started to slip only about a decade ago. In both cases, though, the manufacturer had a sub-subdivision that produced a very high quality car, and has continued to do so. In Toyota's case it's the Prius, which exhibited great quality even as the Camry started to look like a Chrysler in design and build quality.

In GM's case, even though they were forced by popular demand to turn a car they had intended to be vaporware - just PR essentially - into reality, the Volt has astounded just about everyone. The Bolt may be more like the Volt in that respect: resources and time enough invested to produce a high quality car. it may also be more like the Cobalt, though, if they are more interested in turning a profit than in creating a new niche. We should know by this time next year.

My feeling is, If someone is interested in buying an electric car today, then they should buy the 30 kwh Leaf, and not worry about the future. What do I care about some pie-in-the-sky promise that some other car will be coming in the distant future...

The BOLT, in my mind, is distant future.... Maybe it will be sold in 1 year, and if you have any brains, you will wait for 2-3 years of service before jumping into a totally new class of car. First, I would be very wary of buying a GM product, especially an EV, with their track record of support. Also, I would not rate GM at the same level of quality as Nissan. Second, I would not want to be the first experimental group to test their car for them..

So, if the Bolt was in my future, it would be in 3+ years from today. Why should I "drool with anticipation" over a "possible" new car for 3 years? I would buy a tried and true Leaf (sold all over the world), and have the gas and $$$ savings benefit of an EV TODAY.. I have a 24 kwh 15 Leaf for 2 years already and love walking to my car every morning. I love doing errands in a totally quiet, great handling car. Maybe there will be higher range cars in the future, but my Leaf is MORE THAN ADEQUATE for my needs today, and in the future, and no one can take away that I have been having this enjoyment for 2 years already....

The above post makes some valid points, but the Bolt will be available in at least 5 states in about two months, not one year. The same reasoning would have had people wait for three more years in 2011 for a new Leaf. That wouldn't have been a bad thing for people in hot climates, but the Leaf proved to be reliable enough for typical EV drivers right from the start.