Exactly HOW BAD is quick charge?

2014 Nissan leaf S
20,000 miles, now 22,000 miles

I have Level 2 at home and use it daily. It charges usually 75 to 80 miles. But I rarely get over 60 miles with it.

I have read DC Quick Charge is bad for the battery. But it is so convenient. I had to Quick Charge a couple of weeks ago. Thirty minutes for 80%. It was great.

How bad is it?
How often can I safely use the DC Quick Charge without destroying the battery?

Depending on where you live, not that bad..
It's mostly about heat..
In really hot weather, QCs will add heat (well, they always add heat, but in hot weather it just raises the battery temperature that much higher), which batteries don't like.

But in general, not a problem.

Age and heat are bad for batteries..

I QC all the time, and while I have lost my first bar, I have a 2012 and according to the aging chart, that's expected...
But I live in the Pacific Northwest, where the temperature is better for EVs..

A taxi in the UK not too long ago posted that it crossed 100,000 miles (or more??? can't remember) with almost all QCs and still 12 bars.. But again, UK climate is very EV friendly..

desiv

Quick charge all you want.

As stated above, it's only "bad" if your battery is hot, and getting hotter with quick charging.

Any time you charge, it is best not to "fill up" and then leave the car at 100% for an extended period.

The worst things for long life with a lithium battery are:

1) Hot, fully charged

2) Very cold (like -30C), battery fully depleted, because of fear of freezing cells


The best for longest range is:

Hot, fully charged


The worst for longest range is:

Very cold (like -30C), battery fully depleted

Thanks for the info. I was under the impression that quick charging was bad for the battery.

I'm In Dallas so the summer is hot, but not like Arizona. And there aren't that many quick charge places here, mostly level 2. The Quick charges I've found have been mostly evgo $$$. I used one once because of an emergency. But I loved the ability to shop at Walgreens while it went to 80%.

Thanks again.

If you have seven or more temp bars showing, then QC can probably be considered a "bad" thing for the battery pack. If you have 5 bars showing it should be no problem. (Six bars is still er, hotly debated.) So it depends more on how Hot a given day is where you live than anything else.

Mine rides on 6 bars normally. It had 20k miles when I bought it. 6 bars every day. Only time it's been up to 7 is twice since the weather has been warm.

Mine rides on 6 bars normally. It had 20k miles when I bought it. 6 bars every day. Only time it's been up to 7 is twice since the weather has been warm.

Not bad. There was a nice side by side government study with 4 leafs. Two were ALWAYS quick charged, the other two just level 2. Quick charging had just a couple percent more loss 27 vs 25%, or along those lines.

My LEAF is 5.5 years old, has 44,000 miles, with 9 capacity bars still remaining (3rd bar loss was at 5 years of age). I have used the DC Fast Chargers 175 times in that time (according to LEAF SpyPro)...I've tried to manage the battery myself over the years in a healthy way (minimize 100% charge wait time, don't drain to 0% repeatedly, use ECO mode to control max current flow, avoid parking in sun when shade is available, etc.)

There are many fellow LEAF owners in the region who have lost more than 3 bars with a far far less number of DC Fast charges...So my conclusion is that the convenience of DCFC outweighs any negative influence, as long as you don't heat up the battery too much...

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=14271

Unfortunately, many of the links are dead.

I guess I and/or others should've submitted them to archive.org (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=9553).

it is noticeable after 30K

https://avt.inl.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/vehiclebatteries/DCFC_Study_FactSheet_30k.pdf

remarquian said:

it is noticeable after 30K

https://avt.inl.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/vehiclebatteries/DCFC_Study_FactSheet_30k.pdf

Click to expand...

Well, it's measurable...
Noticeable might depend... ;-) It's still a pretty small difference...

That's from someone who quick charges a lot and is over 40k... (But is in the PNW..)

desiv

Going to 80% avoids a lot of the heat and is the best use of your time unless you really need the remaining 20%. It's the last portion of the charge that begins ramping up the heat. That's why the charge rate begins to taper off.

Nubo said:

Going to 80% avoids a lot of the heat and is the best use of your time unless you really need the remaining 20%. It's the last portion of the charge that begins ramping up the heat. That's why the charge rate begins to taper off.

Click to expand...

Good point..
I QC a LOT, but almost never to full...
70%-80% will easily get me to the next QC or home.. ;-)

desiv

Morning,
I'll add to this I guess. 2016 SV w/ 13k since leased in April.
I live in Vermont so the hot season is short. I use QC at least once a week to offset L1as my regular recharge method. I live in an apartment and don't have access to 240v. My commute is 64 miles round trip with a choice of interstate or a slower state road with about the same distance.
My QC sessions are usually 10 -15 min on those days. enough to get to 50-60% so when i plug in at home ill be back to 100% or so.
There isn't much heat increase with those sessions.

I have taken 3 long trips with this car so far. 2 from where I live in Montpelier to Boston, MA and one to Albany, NY. All of these are round trips in one day. All involve 6 QC session back to back. The Boston trip could have been 5 but I had to go north first to pick up a passenger which required an additional QC.

I ran the interstate @ 55 mph and when I charged it was the max the station allowed. 30 min. That brought me to 90% +/- and gain about a temp bar for each session.
Both Boston trips were done in cooler weather, but not winter so some climate control was used. M/Kwh was 4.1 or better. The second Boston trip was done in less time with no stops except to charge. The battery temp got to 11 bars at one point on the last few charges but dropped back down a bar while driving. No warnings or power reduction from the car.

The Albany trip was done on an 84ºF day in August. Again 6 QC sessions and driving on 50mph roads with climate control set to 70º the whole trip. I only charged to 80% at the QC stations. Again I reached 11 temp bars on the last QC.

I use LeafSpy to monitor battery conditions ect. I notice that each trip raised the battery health by several percent. That percentage stayed up for several weeks before dropping back a couple percent again. The last trip raised it higher than it was when i first got LeafSpy 97%. It has held that for a couple of weeks now.

What I didn't do is let the car sit at that high charge while hot. I immediately set back out on my trip. When I returned home I put it back on my L1 fro the commute for the next day. When I arrived home the temp and dropped to 9 bars and was down to 6 in the morning.

Time will tell but I think the 30Kwh battery being more heat tolerant may mean it can handle the temp rises better than the older chemistry. It will still get hot but may be it won't do as much damage if it isn't left at that temp for long while static.

My plan is to use the car as I need to and not worry too much about the battery. I will keep track of the health stats over time to see if this use works out or not. I take screenshots monthly of the battery stat page in LeafSpy. Obviously I won't intentionally abuse it but it seems since Nissan made the temp gauge with a window of safe use so to speak I would think they would not make that so the the battery could be abused too much. They set the parameters as to when warnings are triggered. It would be in their best interest to be conservative somewhat on this. They are the ones that have to replace the battery if it depletes too much before the warrantee runs out. I'm sure like everything a major car company does it's a compromise.

They gave us a car with around 100 mile range and a QC port. I'd say use it as needed. Unless you plan to keep your Leaf as a classic car then i say use it as it's designed. Cars don't last forever sadly. It's hard I know with the purchase price being as high as it is and that it is a unique car. Hopefully in several years EVs will be the norm and not the exception. Remember that purchase price also is the cost of one of the few things we can do as individuals to help reduce our waste footprint. my 2¢.

Wow, 64mi RT commute and you use L1 in Vermont! That's amazing. Certainly only possible with the 30KWh battery, heat pump, and weekly DCQC top up. Way to make it work. I can do it with my 2011, energy hogging heater and degrading battery, but it's only 8 mi RT.