2018 LEAF Vs Tesla Model 3 SR: A Comparison Table for the USA

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The article is a comparison of what?

Each manufacturer's advertising dept? Several of the same features but using different terms?

3.6 KW charging?

How can we take this seriously?
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
The article is a comparison of what?

Each manufacturer's advertising dept? Several of the same features but using different terms?

3.6 KW charging?

How can we take this seriously?

Yes! One can stop reading shortly after this beginning;

Starting at $29,990 with a 151 miles of range the 2018 Nissan Leaf puts a good challenge to Tesla Model 3 which starts at $35,000 and the wait time for delivery can stretch from 1-3 years.

as the balance of the article is of little value and a waste of time, when one is basically vaporware as a comparative vehicle.
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
Once you get 150 miles from home there's no place to charge the LEAF, or anything else other than a Tesla. That's the difference.
If you want to get home, halve that distance
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
Each manufacturer's advertising dept? Several of the same features but using different terms? How can we take this seriously?
Yeah, that was a waste of time.

If you read it, you'll think the Tesla doesn't even have HomeLink since there are no buttons on the rear view mirror. I presume the 3 works like the S/X in that it's tied to a geolocation - it can auto activate when you arrive/leave.

And under the Telematics, NissanConnect EV must be much better because of all the extra words they used to describe it.
 
Latest photo captures have Model 3 VIN at ~ 12000 on the road.
As a day #1 reservation holder, I know that my preferred trim of the Model 3 is delayed but I have zero worry about it not being delivered.

I reserve charges of "vaporware" for cars being hyped that have not left the prototype stage and lack key supplier contracts and production facilities. Examples would be the Fisker offerings. Or the LG battery in a LEAF with TMS
 
SageBrush said:
Latest photo captures have Model 3 VIN at ~ 12000 on the road.
As a day #1 reservation holder, I know that my preferred trim of the Model 3 is delayed but I have zero worry about it not being delivered.

I reserve charges of "vaporware" for cars being hyped that have not left the prototype stage and lack key supplier contracts and production facilities. Examples would be the Fisker offerings. Or the LG battery in a LEAF with TMS

Yes, your point is valid. I guess I should have been more explicit. The vaporware implication was based on the fact that most all $35K
M3s won't be delivered in 2018, or ever. As I stated many times, it's highly questionable if Tesla could ever make a profit on the M3
as it's presently designed/configured and deliver it for $35K.
 
You don't seem to understand the concept of a "loss leader." The $35k Tesla is important for sales of the more expensive versions, so it will be produced and delivered, just as tens of thousands of stripped, value-priced cars before have been sold with no radios, A/C or even hubcaps, to enable entry by the brand into the low end market. (If $35k can be called 'low end' of course.)
 
lorenfb said:
The vaporware implication was based on the fact that most all $35K
M3s won't be delivered in 2018, or ever. .
Care to make that range a little greater ? :D
 
LeftieBiker said:
You don't seem to understand the concept of a "loss leader." The $35k Tesla is important for sales of the more expensive versions, so it will be produced and delivered, just as tens of thousands of stripped, value-priced cars before have been sold with no radios, A/C or even hubcaps, to enable entry by the brand into the low end market. (If $35k can be called 'low end' of course.)

Have you forgotten that the M3 was to be the needed "turn-around" vehicle that would save Telsa from Chapter 7?
Other auto OEMs can produce "loss leaders", not Tesla. Remember, the MS & MX do not produce profits for
Tesla, i.e. they're Tesla's "loss leaders". Furthermore, why do you think Tesla presently doesn't deliver M3s that sell
for less than about $50K and won't until next year or ever? Sorry your memory or insight is lacking. Again, a $35K M3
is vaporware!
 
lorenfb said:
Have you forgotten that the M3 was to be the needed "turn-around" vehicle that would save Telsa from Chapter 7?

Amusing and backwards. Model S and X are profitable, and Tesla is betting the company on the Model 3 production ramp up.

So far, Tesla hasn't won or lost this bet. Not looking great, however.


lorenfb said:
the MS & MX do not produce profits for Tesla.]/quote]

Really. Based on what? Cost of production higher than selling price? No. Then what? (2017)

Sales = $11.76B
Cost of goods sold = $9.51B

Tesla lost money because of:

SG&A Expense = $3.85B

At least twice what it would be without the Model 3 development. Tesla could have been profitable, without the Model 3 bet. And some of the cost of goods sold is likely from the Model 3.

Remember I'm not a Tesla stock fan, but for reasons that I think are supportable. Even if Tesla wins the Model 3 production ramp up bet, Tesla is still a tiny fish in a pond full of whales. I'm not going to short sell the stock, the market can be irrational longer than I can be solvent.
 
WetEV said:
Tesla lost money because of:

SG&A Expense = $3.85B

At least twice what it would be without the Model 3 development. Tesla could have been profitable, without the Model 3 bet. And some of the cost of goods sold is likely from the Model 3.

Thanks for the added info to support what was posted, i.e. Tesla is presently unprofitable!
And yes, the M3 is a bet! By the way, SG&A doesn't pay for M3 development, R&D does, which is NOT part of a vehicle's gross profit.
 
Of course Tesla in unprofitable. Just look at what they have built in the last year or so:
A Gigafactory !!
A completely re-tooled car factory
A rapidly expanding SuperCharger network
R&D of an electric Semi and the Model Y

They are poring every penny of profit (and more) into growth.

Amazon has done the same, for years.
 
SageBrush said:
Of course Tesla in unprofitable. Just look at what they have built in the last year or so:
A Gigafactory !!
A completely re-tooled car factory
A rapidly expanding SuperCharger network
R&D of an electric Semi and the Model Y

They are poring every penny of profit (and more) into growth.

Amazon has done the same, for years.


Don't bother with Lorenfb , he is here only to troll Tesla and astroturf.
 
EVDRIVER said:
Don't bother with Lorenfb , he is here only to troll Tesla and astroturf.

For giggles, here is Amazon over the years.
Perhaps Lorenfb can head over there and troll

uc
 
SageBrush said:
Of course Tesla in unprofitable.

So you agree too! Great, now more on MNL are starting to understand basic accounting and that huge continued losses, e.g. $20K per vehicle
at Tesla in 2017, have an end point called Chapter 7 of the Federal Bankruptcy Laws.

Again, we have the naive comparing Tesla to Amazon. Laughable!
 
lorenfb said:
WetEV said:
At least twice what it would be without the Model 3 development. Tesla could have been profitable, without the Model 3 bet. And some of the cost of goods sold is likely from the Model 3.

Thanks for the added info to support what was posted, i.e. Tesla is presently unprofitable!
And yes, the M3 is a bet! By the way, SG&A doesn't pay for M3 development, R&D does, which is NOT part of a vehicle's gross profit.

Tesla is unprofitable because of investing in rapid growth. What pays for SuperCharger sites to support the Model 3 role out? SG&A

Tesla could be profitable, if Tesla was willing to "settle" for 20% or so growth per year. However, that wouldn't support the current valuation on the stock.

The problem is that there are probably more "bet the company" events in the future. For Tesla's stock valuation, Tesla has to win them all.

The Model S almost killed Tesla, before saving it.

The Model 3 may kill Tesla. Or save it again.

And so on.

If you want to be a Tesla bear, please get it correct. Don't annoy with false reasons to not buy and/or short Tesla stock. There are plenty of real reasons.

(Edit. I removed the spaces added to avoid annoying hyperlinks to improve readability. Then forgot to remove the note.)
 
lorenfb said:
huge continued losses, e.g. $20K per vehicle

Dividing apples by oranges.

Tesla makes Model S cars at a profit. Model X as well.

Model 3? Ah, yes. Like every other car ever made in modern times, the first real production car probably lost a lot more than $20k each. And there will be some volume of Model 3 production that will have an average loss of $20k per car. And a larger volume where Tesla just breaks even. Beyond that, Tesla will be making money on Model 3s. Assume that Tesla lives long enough, of course.

Tesla is losing money because trying for explosive growth. Explosive growth can be wonderful, but explosions can also end up with a pile of rubble. (Sorry for the bad metaphor.) This is a high wire act with no net. (Ok, also a bad metaphor.) And the stock is priced like Tesla is going to succeed.
 
WetEV said:
lorenfb said:
huge continued losses, e.g. $20K per vehicle

Dividing apples by oranges.

No! Please try to understand basic accounting and do simple math;

2017 GAAP loss - $2B (2 x 10^9)
2017 vehicles sold - 100K (10^5)
Loss per vehicle = $2 x 10^9 / 10^5 = $2 x 10^4 = $20,000/vehicle sold

WetEV said:
Tesla makes Model S cars at a profit. Model X as well.

No again! Remember SG&A + R&D costs MUST be paid for, and each vehicle sold is "burdened" with those costs.

WetEV said:
Model 3? Ah, yes. Like every other car ever made in modern times, the first real production car probably lost a lot more than $20k each. And there will be some volume of Model 3 production that will have an average loss of $20k per car. And a larger volume where Tesla just breaks even. Beyond that, Tesla will be making money on Model 3s. Assume that Tesla lives long enough, of course.

Your guess like many others!
 
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