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UBUYGAS

Well-known member
Joined
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Messages
1,368
Location
Central NJ
#USPS #ELECTRICCARS

https://www.change.org/p/united-states-post-office-require-new-mail-trucks-to-be-electric?recruiter=161301214&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=autopublish&utm_term=mob-xs-action_alert-no_msg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



usps_buy_electric_cars.jpg
 
I think USPS should not be subsidized at all, and should be expected to function as a private entity, with permission to let the free market dictate the prices to send mail and packages.

If USPS were to follow the lead of private companies like UPS and FedEx, they would indeed begin to acquire EVs for some routes. They ought to be able to justify such a move based on cost of ownership, with no need for mandates or additional subsidies.
 
I think USPS should not be subsidized at all, and should be expected to function as a private entity, with permission to let the free market dictate the prices to send mail and packages.

And I think that the biggest corporations should be nationalized. Let what's best for people dictate corporate policy. Anyway, I'd like to know how well the Ford electric delivery van is working out for Canada. These vehicles are out for many hours at a time, in cold winter weather, and I wonder how well the heating system works. They supposedly have an EPA range of about 60 miles.
 
LeftieBiker said:
And I think that the biggest corporations should be nationalized. Let what's best for people dictate corporate policy.

Exactly. Services like the Mail should be for everyone and should not be expected to make a profit (even though USPS does without the republican pre-funding of pensions). If USPS didn't exist in its current form, corporations all over the country and world would have huge problems. Everytime something is mailed it would be a couple dollars instead of a half dollar.

As for USPS getting electric vehicles, I think it is a great idea. Infact such a great idea, I worked on a project to design EV box trucks like FedEx and UPS use. USPS needs something more like the Nissan van. Will the Nissan last 25 years? I doubt it.
 
One counter-argument to the idea that a vehicle that won't last 20+ years isn't viable here is that the operating costs should be so much lower as to allow replacement on a shorter time scale - maybe 10 years - and still save money.
 
How about a small scale pilot program with several competing vehicle designs from different vendors. Perhaps have different designs for rural vs urban and temperate vs extreme climates. Then base future purchases on the successes seen in the trials and the operating cost histories.

NAH!!! Let's just have everyone bid on one pork-laden contract and award it to whoever makes the biggest contribution to the Clinton Foundation.
 
2k1Toaster said:
Exactly. Services like the Mail should be for everyone and should not be expected to make a profit (even though USPS does without the republican pre-funding of pensions). If USPS didn't exist in its current form, corporations all over the country and world would have huge problems. Everytime something is mailed it would be a couple dollars instead of a half dollar.
Given the existence of Internet-based communication, I'm not convinced that the "Mail" remains critical for everyday use. I think everyone would learn to adapt to a more market-based system just fine. Sure, companies whose business is sending "junk mail" might be affected, but... (Disclosure: In our area, for no good reason USPS provides no home delivery and we have to go to the PO to get our mail, whereas UPS and FedEx come right to our door, so I am undoubtedly biased.)

2k1Toaster said:
As for USPS getting electric vehicles, I think it is a great idea. Infact such a great idea, I worked on a project to design EV box trucks like FedEx and UPS use. USPS needs something more like the Nissan van. Will the Nissan last 25 years? I doubt it.
Here I completely agree with you. And I agree with LeftieBiker that a 25 year lifetime isn't so important if the "payback" in terms of fuel savings is short enough, as I'm inclined to believe it would be.
 
USPS would not be able to claim tax credits since they have never paid taxes, regardless of status as non-profit. The EV tax credit is not independent of taxes paid like some credits. That means it pays full sticker price minus whatever volume discount it can get, the same type of discount likely offered by the hybrids and ICEs. The prices on the vehicles would be comparable. Gas would have to get very expensive for savings to pay for three or vehicles over the 20 years vs. one for a lifetime.
 
mjblazin said:
If you buy something for 20+ years, why would buy a product that is clearly on a 4-5 year cycle?
Not sure anyone has shown yet that an EV is on a 4 to 5 year cycle?
True, battery tech is changing, but we don't yet know that there won't be similar battery options than 5 year old tech.
If Nissan still produces a low end Leaf with a similar battery size???
And a lot of those smaller EVs might still have the same or larger battery options available for the same frame???

Perhaps a battery pack replacement might be an option in the mean time, but the current round of EVs haven't been around long enough yet to know how long they will be around. ;-)

That said, don't most "fleet" type vehicle services do something more like leasing? So they can make sure they always have vehicles in good shape (repair/upkeep costs can kill ROI).
Not sure a 20 years "purchase" is a good idea, whether it's EV or ICE...
Now, a 5 year lease for postal vehicles would create more EV initial sales and more off-lease sales later.
And most postal delivery would probably be idea for EV usage..
That said, it can't be all EV, because some postal deliver requires longer range.
Maybe 80/20 BEV/PHEV?? ;-)

desiv
 
You guys sound like a bunch of communists. USPS has been losing money for years, let them die, and stop bailing them out with tax dollars. In almost all cases nationalization fails. UPS and FedEx have always been better (and cheaper) than USPS.
 
tkdbrusco said:
You guys sound like a bunch of communists. USPS has been losing money for years, let them die, and stop bailing them out with tax dollars. In almost all cases nationalization fails. UPS and FedEx have always been better (and cheaper) than USPS.
USPS has only been 'losing money' because of political interference. That's not a problem UPS or FedEx have to deal with. And because UPS and FedEx rely on the USPS for a significant chunk of their profits maybe it's better for us that the USPS survives, regardless of how our packages from Amazon are delivered... ;)
 
tkdbrusco said:
You guys sound like a bunch of communists. USPS has been losing money for years, let them die, and stop bailing them out with tax dollars. In almost all cases nationalization fails. UPS and FedEx have always been better (and cheaper) than USPS.

Sounds like someone needs to get out of the republican bubble for a moment and read a little bit. Here is one of many articles. All facts below are independently verifiable, go ahead and look them up. Read that giant budget document, the truth will be revealed...



Nancy Whitfield: U.S. Postal Service: Not broke -- just decimated by Congress under Bush
Since 1971, the USPS has not taken a dime from taxpayers. All of its operations, including the convenience of 32,000 local offices -- more service outlets than Wal-Mart, Starbucks and McDonald's combined -- are paid for by selling stamps and other products.

The USPS is not broke. Indeed, in those four years of loudly deplored "losses," the service actually produced a $700 million operational profit, despite the worst economy since the Great Depression.

In 2006, the Bush White House and Congress whacked the post office with a congressional mandate, with the goal of eventually privatizing and selling it off to their corporate cronies so that they could, in turn, eliminate the union, deflate pensions and decrease wages.

The Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act (PAEA) forced the USPS to pre-fund the next 75 years of retiree health benefits in just a decade, by 2016.

This is something that is not required of any other federal government agency or private corporation. Not to mention that there is no actuarial justification for such an accelerated schedule to pre-fund this future obligation.

PAEA effectively forces the USPS to pre-fund retiree health benefits for some of its future employees who haven't even been born yet!

As a result, the USPS pays at least $5.5 billion each year into a fund for 75 years of future retiree health benefits in addition to paying $2.6 billion for the employer's share of insurance premiums for the Postal Service's current retirees.

On top of this, according to reports from the USPS's Inspector General, the USPS has overpaid $80 billion dollars to the Civil Service Retirement System and the Federal Employees Retirement System, which the federal government refuses to return.

If Congress were to reverse PAEA and return the billions owed to the USPS, the U.S. Postal Service would not be facing a financial crisis.

Since the enactment of PAEA, the USPS has realized net losses of $41 billion, nearly 80 percent of which can be attributed to PAEA's unreasonable pre-funding requirement.

The USPS is the only large corporation that does not receive tax dollars or subsidies from the federal government (it has been self-sustaining) and which is a net creditor of Uncle Sam. Despite these facts, Congress has refused to act to fix the USPS's financial crisis.

The postal service employs 130,000 veterans, 49,000 who are disabled. It is the single largest business with a union workforce.

It receives no money from taxes, which cannot be said of large oil companies and corporations that take federal subsidies and bailouts while outsourcing jobs to foreign countries.

When has the Pentagon ever made a profit? Never, nor does anyone suggest it should.

Neither has the FBI, Centers for Disease Control, FDA, State Department, FEMA, Park Service, etc. Producing a profit is not the purpose of government -- its purpose is service.

The postal service was established in the U.S. Constitution. Let's honor its long-standing heritage with the truth.

Link: http://www.newstimes.com/opinion/article/Nancy-Whitfield-U-S-Postal-Service-Not-broke-4310535.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
USPS these days is a terrible and terribly run organization but to be fair, one of the reasons why they are losing money is the Post Office has been legally required to pre-fund health benefits for future retirees at a cost of around $5.5 billion a year since 2006 by congress. Congress did this, in part, to reduce the apparent federal deficit... No other company or government organization is required to do this, to my knowledge...

tkdbrusco said:
USPS has been losing money for years
 
TomT said:
USPS is a terrible and terribly run organization but to be fair, one of the reasons why they are losing money is the Post Office has been legally required to pre-fund health benefits for future retirees at a cost of around $5.5 billion a year since 2006 by congress. Congress did this, in part, to reduce the apparent federal deficit...

tkdbrusco said:
USPS has been losing money for years
...and as a continuing process to 'outsource' (AKA: give taxpayer funded benefits to big business)...
 
Thank you, 2k1. The USPS seems to be the favorite whipping-boy of the right, but I almost unfailingly find out that their assertions are wrong (imagine that). It is not tax-payer funded, it makes money, it's actually very efficient, has quite reasonable prices, etc. Try mailing a document from the east coast to Hawaii using a private service for 50 cents.
2k1Toaster said:
tkdbrusco said:
You guys sound like a bunch of communists. USPS has been losing money for years, let them die, and stop bailing them out with tax dollars. In almost all cases nationalization fails. UPS and FedEx have always been better (and cheaper) than USPS.

Sounds like someone needs to get out of the republican bubble for a moment and read a little bit. Here is one of many articles. All facts below are independently verifiable, go ahead and look them up. Read that giant budget document, the truth will be revealed...

Link: http://www.newstimes.com/opinion/article/Nancy-Whitfield-U-S-Postal-Service-Not-broke-4310535.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
mbender said:
Thank you, 2k1. The USPS seems to be the favorite whipping-boy of the right, but I almost unfailingly find out that their assertions are wrong (imagine that). It is not tax-payer funded, it makes money, it's actually very efficient, has quite reasonable prices, etc. Try mailing a document from the east coast to Hawaii using a private service for 50 cents.

Yeh, but when I go into the post office I see black people. And there are icky unions involved. Therefore it's a government boondoggle.
 
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