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LTLFTcomposite

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 23, 2010
Messages
4,780
Location
Central FL
I park at home depot yesterday and notice the guy in the next space sitting in his SUV with the engine running talking or doing whatever on his phone. Not sure how long I was in the store, but it had to be at least an hour. When I came back out you guessed it he's still sitting there with the engine running. It wasn't even a hot evening, rolling down the window should have been fine.

I see this behavior play out all the time. There really needs to be some CAFE standards for how much fuel a vehicle can use at idle with climate control on, preferably zero for at least 15 minutes.

Hate to think how much fuel is being wasted and carbon emitted by lazy fat asses in fast food drive through lines.
 
I see that all the time, wherever I go.

The popular thing to do at Publix is to sit in the loading/unloading zone with your monster truck or SUV and keep the engine running. It's not uncommon for me to go into the store, get my stuff, and come back out and the same group of monster trucks and SUVs are still there. I, also, see people sitting in parking lots with all the windows rolled up and engine running and they just sit there. Its not like the weather was real hot or real cold and they needed to keep the AC or heat running.

It even happens where I work. I once saw someone sitting in a car in my workplace parking lot, all windows rolled up and engine running and it looked like he was asleep. I suppose it was better than sleeping at his desk.

Seems to be a South Florida thing. Never saw the same behavior when I lived in California, Nevada or western Washington.
 
The guy that came to my house to inspect the lease return sat in the street for 10 minutes doing paperwork with the engine running, then left his car running in my driveway the whole time he was doing the inspection, another 20 minutes.
 
just piping in with an experience of mine...i borrowed my wife's prius two years ago to drive to summer camp. i was stupid and thought i turned it off but guess i missed it. we arrived at summer camp with just under 3/4 tank of gas. seven days later of idling for 24x7 there was just over one gallon of gas left. aka just enough to get into town and fill up. so i would say a prius engine will burn 1 gallon of gas every 24 hours when left at idle.
 
I guess the thing I object to most is that the trucks idling in the load/unload zone at Publix are all diesels. So you get the joy of smelling diesel fumes when you walk into and out of the supermarket.

Although I will still never forget the guy sleeping in his car in the parking lot with the car's engine running. That was unique.
 
It's illegal in some places. Here you would be ticketed for that.

Around here the law limits a vehicle's idling to five minutes in any one-hour period and the vehicle must be attended to at all times. In addition to that, Colorado Revised Statute 42-4-1206, more commonly known as the "puffer" law, allows law enforcement officers across the state to immediately ticket individuals who have left a vehicle running unattended for any period of time.

The exceptions are:
The ambient outside air temperature has been less than twenty (20) degrees Fahrenheit for each hour of the previous twenty-four (24) hour period; or
The latest hourly ambient outside air temperature is less than ten (10) degrees Fahrenheit.
The idling restriction in subsection (a) shall not apply to emergency vehicles; to vehicles engaged in traffic control operations; to vehicles which are being serviced; to vehicles that must idle to operate auxiliary equipment, including but not limited to pumps, compressors or refrigeration units; or to vehicles en route to a destination that are stopped by traffic congestion.
The time during which transportation vehicles are actively loading or discharging passengers shall not be included in the computation of the five (5) minutes determined herein to be a prolonged or unreasonable period of time. A transportation vehicle shall be defined for purposes of this section to mean motor vehicles designed to transport a minimum of sixteen (16) persons

As to the Prius, it consumes about 0.8gallons per 24 hour period when left in READY as measured by many people including myself. It is nice because when you camp in the Prius you can keep the AC or heat on but not have the engine running the entire time. Very useful in road trips where you can pull over to a rest area. Also the laws above make hybrid taxi cabs very popular. You can keep the car READY but the engine off without having to constantly start and stop it. That's one of the many reasons cabs are hybrids in many places now.
 
These kinds of things (my pet peeve is seeing school buses idling and/or belching out black smoke off the line) really are disheartening. Especially when you consider that there's MANY of them for each ONE of "us". But hopefully we will see the ratio invert itself in the not too distant future.
 
mbender said:
These kinds of things (my pet peeve is seeing school buses idling and/or belching out black smoke off the line) really are disheartening. Especially when you consider that there's MANY of them for each ONE of "us". But hopefully we will see the ratio invert itself in the not too distant future.

50 people one a single belching diesel isn't as bad as 50 people in 50 quasi-belching vehicles. Same as how a huge plane per-person is not as bad as you might think if you compare to everyone driving themselves.
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
I see this behavior play out all the time.
Right here with you - super annoying when you see people do this. Usually they're just sitting there playing on their phone or something dumb. Even before the recent gas price drop people were doing it, so my assumption is that gas is and was way too cheap, even here in California where gas prices are currently well over $3/gallon compared to other states where gas is just over $2/gallon.
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
Hate to think how much fuel is being wasted and carbon emitted by lazy fat asses in fast food drive through lines.
At an In-N-Out Burger somewhat near me, on a busy night, the drive thru line is usually over a dozen vehicles long, almost NONE of which are hybrids, EVs/PHEVs or anything w/auto-start/stop systems. A fair # of them are guzzler trucks and SUVs (medium sized or above, V6 or V8 powered). The fricking dining room/lobby is open the whole time!
drees said:
Even before the recent gas price drop people were doing it, so my assumption is that gas is and was way too cheap, even here in California where gas prices are currently well over $3/gallon compared to other states where gas is just over $2/gallon.
The above In-N-Out lines were going on even was gas was over $4/gal, so gas must've been still too cheap and/or those people are just clueless.
 
The solution to this is to mandate (with intelligent exceptions) that all consumer vehicles, and most commercial ones, be at least weak hybrids, with larger storage batteries, starter/generators, and the ability to run at least the A/C for a few minutes with the engine off. They would shut the engine off when stopped, and restart it instantly when you want to move.
 
cwerdna said:
LTLFTcomposite said:
Hate to think how much fuel is being wasted and carbon emitted by lazy fat asses in fast food drive through lines.
At an In-N-Out Burger somewhat near me, on a busy night, the drive thru line is usually over a dozen vehicles long, almost NONE of which are hybrids, EVs/PHEVs or anything w/auto-start/stop systems. A fair # of them are guzzler trucks and SUVs (medium sized or above, V6 or V8 powered). The fricking dining room/lobby is open the whole time!.

Even if I plan on getting that Double-Double "to go" I often find it faster to park and go inside to order than to go through the drive-through.

On a related note I laugh whenever I see a long line of cars at the drive up ATM but there are unused walk-up ones nearby along with ample free parking.
 
LeftieBiker said:
The solution to this is to mandate (with intelligent exceptions) that all consumer vehicles, and most commercial ones, be at least weak hybrids, with larger storage batteries, starter/generators, and the ability to run at least the A/C for a few minutes with the engine off. They would shut the engine off when stopped, and restart it instantly when you want to move.

California already mandates an auto shutoff system for diesel engines on trucks 2008 and newer of at least 14k lbs GVWR: http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2011/06/california-clean-idle-sticker-certifies-you-can-do-exactly-that.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There are exceptions for certain types of vehicles (like those used for public safety) and if the NOx emissions at idle are below a certain threshold. A truck driver who was asking about my Leaf had the "Certified Clean Idle" sticker and he told me his particular truck is a hybrid.

California has also outlawed the idling of over 5 minutes of any diesel powered vehicle of over 10k lbs GVWR, regardless of age or where it's registered: http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/cabcomfort/cabcomfort.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
Several years back my wife's father's family had a big family reunion. Had a diesel nice air conditioned tour bus.

At picnic lunch stop driver did what was and to a large extent still is normal for a tour bus in the US he left it running with air conditioning on, even though everyone was eating outside in the 90F heat at picnic tables.

But one relative, a cousin that has lived in Switzerland for most of his life proceeded to ask everyone why the driver was leaving the bus running.

Opinions on stopping unnecessary idling are changing in the US, but very slowly.
 
cwerdna said:
...anything w/auto-start/stop systems. ...
The unfortunate reality is that most of the auto-start/stop systems that OEMs are adding to more and more of their ICE vehicles to get a better EPA rating just do not work in the real world.
They only work in the short EPA test cycle.

The standard cranking service lead acid batteries they are using do not support the energy needs for auto-start/stop systems in real world driving systems.
All they are doing is generating an inefficient huge waste stream of failed lead acid batteries.

A pHD battery technologies expert in Chattanooga has talked with several of them about battery technologies that would work.
The OEMs recognize what they are building does not work, but they just do not care.
All they care about is gaming the EPA test with a lower #, whether they deliver real world results or not.

Mandates on auto-start/stop systems will require a lot better standards on requiring real world results, otherwise they will be a useless inefficient waste.
 
Large form factor NiMH batteries would work fine in this application. They are cheap and rugged. The self-discharge issue is solvable, as evidenced by the existence of small form factor NiMH batteries that don't self-discharge much.
 
TimLee said:
Several years back my wife's father's family had a big family reunion. Had a diesel nice air conditioned tour bus.

At picnic lunch stop driver did what was and to a large extent still is normal for a tour bus in the US he left it running with air conditioning on, even though everyone was eating outside in the 90F heat at picnic tables.

But one relative, a cousin that has lived in Switzerland for most of his life proceeded to ask everyone why the driver was leaving the bus running.

Opinions on stopping unnecessary idling are changing in the US, but very slowly.

A friend of a friend is Swiss, and he told me that in Switzerland you can get a ticket for any form of excessive idling, including leaving the car running while you remove snow and ice from the windows and lights.
 
Proposed Solution: Raise the federal gasoline & diesel tax so that the pump price is around $10 per gallon. Use the billions/trillions $$ collected to balance the federal budget/pay down the national debt. Of course, that'll never happen because there are too many macho pick-em-up truck/hemi/big V-8 drivers out there. :roll:
 
derkraut said:
Proposed Solution: Raise the federal gasoline & diesel tax so that the pump price is around $10 per gallon. Use the billions/trillions $$ collected to balance the federal budget/pay down the national debt. Of course, that'll never happen because there are too many macho pick-em-up truck/hemi/big V-8 drivers out there. :roll:

Even if everybody drove a Prius or a Leaf, $10/gallon gas would cause the price of all consumer goods to go up, because trucks are still needed to get those products to retailers.
 
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