User avatar
RegGuheert
Posts: 5438
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

PSA: Online course on shale gas (free)

Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:01 am

The University of Nottingham is currently conducting a course which looks at the debate surrounding shale gas extraction and usage. They claim that they are not advocating for or against shale gas, but rather are trying to expose all aspects of the debate. The course started this week and it is not too late to join:

University of Nottingham Shale Gas Course

There will apparently be a weekly debate each Thursday between 7PM and 9PM UK time. The first one is TODAY. I'm not sure I will be able to make these, so I am hopeful they will be recorded.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
2011 miles at purchase. 10K miles on Apr 14, 2013. 20K miles (55.7Ah) on Aug 7, 2014, 30K miles (52.0Ah) on Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah) on Feb 8, 2017.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

User avatar
RegGuheert
Posts: 5438
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: PSA: Online course on shale gas (free)

Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:55 am

I completed the first week of material, which mainly covered information about shale, shale gas and fracking. One link that was provided in the course that others may find interesting is a JPG (?) of the chemicals used by a fracking company in UK. Unlike in the US, they are required to specify exactly what goes down the well over there:

Cuadrilla: Preese Hall Well 1 Fracking Chemical Composition Disclosure

The first weekly discussion (debate) begins in about an hour. I'm not exactly sure how to even access it, yet. I hope it is not simply the "comments" section I see at the bottom of that page. We'll see what they do.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
2011 miles at purchase. 10K miles on Apr 14, 2013. 20K miles (55.7Ah) on Aug 7, 2014, 30K miles (52.0Ah) on Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah) on Feb 8, 2017.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

thankyouOB
Posts: 3576
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:14 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2011
Leaf Number: 1442
Location: Coastal LA

Re: PSA: Online course on shale gas (free)

Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:58 am

shocking. UK requires disclosure of what is being pumped into the earth in fracking fluids; and the companies that do it actually survive the experience.
may reserve/delivery 4/30/11
--
ECOtality/LADWP/ Blink 4/4/11
--
Gardena Nissan, msrp -1k
red SL with etec L3
SOLAR POWERED since 2008

User avatar
RegGuheert
Posts: 5438
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: PSA: Online course on shale gas (free)

Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:07 am

thankyouOB wrote:...the companies that do it actually survive the experience.
Maybe. Unlike in the US where the EPA has given carte blanche to fracking companies, fracking in the UK has not yet taken off. That is why the debate is so active there right now.

Frankly, I cannot tell whether this course is just an effort by a corporate-funded university to indoctrinate the public on the joys of fracking, or not. I suspect it may be. We'll see. So far, much of the material is either from the US or UK geological surveys or from the petroleum industry in the UK. Next week's material is about worldwide energy needs. Discussion of the environmental impact is not until week 3.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
2011 miles at purchase. 10K miles on Apr 14, 2013. 20K miles (55.7Ah) on Aug 7, 2014, 30K miles (52.0Ah) on Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah) on Feb 8, 2017.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

AndyH
Posts: 6325
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:43 pm
Location: San Antonio

Re: PSA: Online course on shale gas (free)

Thu Feb 05, 2015 8:01 pm

thankyouOB wrote:shocking. UK requires disclosure of what is being pumped into the earth in fracking fluids; and the companies that do it actually survive the experience.

From a quick scan of the page (Thanks reg), they don't use most of the chemicals in the UK that companies use in the US. Here they're pumping a cocktail that includes diesel fuel and plenty of known carcinogens.

Additionally, the EU is ruled by the precautionary principle; not so here.
"The stupid become extinct."-Bill Mollison

2015 smart Electric Drive "The Bumblebee"
OpenEVSE Plus DIY

User avatar
RegGuheert
Posts: 5438
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: PSA: Online course on shale gas (free)

Fri Feb 06, 2015 7:14 am

AndyH wrote:From a quick scan of the page (Thanks reg), they don't use most of the chemicals in the UK that companies use in the US. Here they're pumping a cocktail that includes diesel fuel and plenty of known carcinogens.
I think that is precisely the difference that occurs between requiring them to *publish* what they pump down there and allowing them to keep it as a "trade secret." Why the EPA feels it is a good idea to let frackers pump whatever they feel like into those wells, in secret, is beyond me.

But regardless of whether they pump petroleum products into the well or not, they still *release* petrochemicals when they frack the well. That is an inconvenient fact which is often avoided in this type of discussion.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
2011 miles at purchase. 10K miles on Apr 14, 2013. 20K miles (55.7Ah) on Aug 7, 2014, 30K miles (52.0Ah) on Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah) on Feb 8, 2017.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

AndyH
Posts: 6325
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:43 pm
Location: San Antonio

Re: PSA: Online course on shale gas (free)

Fri Feb 06, 2015 1:31 pm

RegGuheert wrote:
AndyH wrote:From a quick scan of the page (Thanks reg), they don't use most of the chemicals in the UK that companies use in the US. Here they're pumping a cocktail that includes diesel fuel and plenty of known carcinogens.
I think that is precisely the difference that occurs between requiring them to *publish* what they pump down there and allowing them to keep it as a "trade secret." Why the EPA feels it is a good idea to let frackers pump whatever they feel like into those wells, in secret, is beyond me.

But regardless of whether they pump petroleum products into the well or not, they still *release* petrochemicals when they frack the well. That is an inconvenient fact which is often avoided in this type of discussion.

The EPA doesn't feel it's a good idea, Reg. The EPA is required to follow the law. Congress wrote and the president signed the law that allows US frackers immunity from the clean air and clean water acts, not the EPA.

On the contrary, that chemicals are released as a result of hydraulic fracturing actually is not avoided - it's a central part of the problem.

Scan the papers - peer reviewed all:
http://endocrinedisruption.org/chemicals-in-natural-gas-operations/peer-reviewed-articles
"The stupid become extinct."-Bill Mollison

2015 smart Electric Drive "The Bumblebee"
OpenEVSE Plus DIY

User avatar
RegGuheert
Posts: 5438
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: PSA: Online course on shale gas (free)

Tue Feb 10, 2015 2:17 pm

For reference, here are the titles of the four weeks in the course:

Week 1: Introducing Shale Gas & Fracking
Week 2: Economics and Energy Security of Shale Gas Development
Week 3: Environmental Considerations of Shale Gas
Week 4: Regulation, Communities and Public Engagement of Shale Gas

We are currently in Week 2 of a course which appeared to be heading more toward a shale gas sales pitch (particularly considering some of the answers I got to questions about environmental concerns during an interactive session last Thursday).

But then there were some interesting facts provided in a video this week regarding energy security: EU only has a potential maximum production rate of 4B m^3/year of shale gas. When compared with the 70B m^3/year of shale gas produced in the US today, it seems quite unlikely that shale gas will be economically viable there anytime in the near future. (That said, the US number seems quite low. I find 275B m^3/year of shale gas to be the actual current production rate. I wonder how accurate the EU estimation is...)

I had not realized there was such a stark difference in the availability of the resource in Europe when compared with the US (assuming it is real).
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
2011 miles at purchase. 10K miles on Apr 14, 2013. 20K miles (55.7Ah) on Aug 7, 2014, 30K miles (52.0Ah) on Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah) on Feb 8, 2017.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

Return to “Environmental Issues”