edatoakrun
Posts: 4756
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Guess the Monroney contest: Tesla 3 and LEAF 2 efficiency ratings

Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:34 pm

Well, it's been a week since model 3 "sales" started, and no sign of the required fuel economy disclosure.

So, either TSLA never affixed the “conditional fuel economy label(s)” to the 30 model 3s it has claimed to have sold, or the buyers have been suitably intimidated to prevent disclosure.

So lets guess!

And what the hell, why not do the same for the LEAF Gen two.

For the Tesla 3, I suggest you post your guess for the RWD large battery model-the first version which is supposed to be available to customers, sometime by late fall (?).

For the LEAF Gen two, post your guess for base pack, FWD, which is expected to be the first model available (if any other are planned).

Look here for relevant comparisons and the format our brave bureaucrats have decided on, MPGe, in City and Highway cycles.

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do ... 1&id=38428

My guesses...and that is exactly what they are, since I make no claims of inside sources or information:



Edatoakrun, 8/3/17 Tesla 3 (310 m pack) 125 MPGe City 120 MPGe Highway


Edatoakrun, 8/3/17 LEAF Gen two (base) 140 MPGe City 120 MPGe Highway




If you want to place your guesses, please add them, copy and repost all previous guesses in separate columns in the format above, along with your other (on-topic, PLEASE!) comments.

Background, from the Tesla 3 thread:

...Wonder if TSLA will reveal data from the “conditional fuel economy label” before or by tomorrow night?

And if so, will it be only for the optional-large-battery RWD versions it has said will be "delivered" tomorrow night, or show data for the entire model 3 range?

Tesla's Official Model 3 EPA Efficiency Data Will Be One Month Late

Tesla will launch its Model 3 on Friday, July 28th without official EPA energy efficiency data.


Like many aspects of Telsa's vehicle launches, the energy efficiency data is an afterthought to be handled when time permits, rather before the cars start to be sold to private owners.

No Official Window Sticker For Model 3

In the U.S., every car sold must have a Monroney sticker affixed to its side window by law.
The is sticker has evolved over the years, but now contains primarily fuel economy information (in the largest font on the sticker), energy (or fuel) costs in the second largest font size, crash test data from NHTSA, manufacturing location and parts origin by percentage, and, of course, the individual vehicle's MSRP and standard and optional content in the smallest font. Tesla will be providing vehicles to consumers without official data...

We asked the folks at http://www.fueleconomy.gov if the information was available and discovered it was not. Our inquiry was timely. Just yesterday, July 26th, 2017, http://www.fueleconomy.gov received an e-mail from the EPA informing the group that the data would be a month late and that official sales of the Model 3 would start on July 28th (not what you may have otherwise heard reported). Instead of an official Monroney sticker, the EPA will allow Tesla to ship a limited number of vehicles (possibly less than 100 in total) with “conditional fuel economy label”. http://WWW.fueleconomy.gov explained to us that, "This provision in EPA regulations allows manufacturers to introduce a model based on manufacturer’s test data, while the test vehicle is being confirmatory tested at EPA." The group says that EPA won't be sending any information to http://www.fueleconomy.gov until the data is finalized, which is estimated to take another month...

https://www.torquenews.com/1083/teslas- ... nth-late...

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=18016&start=860
no condition is permanent

edatoakrun
Posts: 4756
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: Guess the Monroney contest: Tesla 3 and LEAF 2 efficiency ratings

Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:55 am

No city/Highway MPGe breakdown for the 3 yet, but the combined efficiency rating has been leaked:

Tesla Model 3 EPA Fuel Economy label shows its efficiency

...A member of the TMC forum whose username is stopcrazypp noticed the Tesla Model 3’s EPA Fuel Economy label in a picture posted online of its frunk (front trunk). The picture has poor resolution and most information can’t be read, however we can see that the combined efficiency rate is 126 MPGe.

The 126 MPGe figure is impressive, especially considering that it’s for the less efficient longer range version with the heavier battery. This makes the Tesla Model 3 only second to the Hyundai IONIQ Electric which gets an amazing 136 MPGe...

http://pushevs.com/2017/08/06/tesla-mod ... fficiency/
no condition is permanent

SageBrush
Posts: 1498
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Guess the Monroney contest: Tesla 3 and LEAF 2 efficiency ratings

Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:40 pm

edatoakrun wrote:So, either TSLA never affixed the “conditional fuel economy label(s)” to the 30 model 3s it has claimed to have sold, or the buyers have been suitably intimidated to prevent disclosure.
I stopped reading here. Trolls annoy me.

A photo of the Model 3 Monroney is floating around on the web. It was placed in the frunk
The Dyno Coefficients from the roll-down testing have been published.

Go fetch.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

User avatar
Nubo
Posts: 4512
Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 11:01 am
Delivery Date: 31 Oct 2014
Location: Vallejo, CA

Re: Guess the Monroney contest: Tesla 3 and LEAF 2 efficiency ratings

Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:44 pm

Nubo, 8/3/17 Tesla 3 (310 m pack) 106 MPGe City 118 MPGe Highway


Nubo, 8/3/17 LEAF Gen two (base) 108 MPGe City 115 MPGe Highway
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

edatoakrun
Posts: 4756
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: Guess the Monroney contest: Tesla 3 and LEAF 2 efficiency ratings

Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:40 am

SageBrush wrote:
edatoakrun wrote:So, either TSLA never affixed the “conditional fuel economy label(s)” to the 30 model 3s it has claimed to have sold, or the buyers have been suitably intimidated to prevent disclosure.
I stopped reading here...

If you hadn't been so committed to maintaining your ignorance, and continued reading, you would have seen exactly what we know from the photo leak (126 combined MPGe) and what we still don't know...the rest of the label contents.

For those who missed it on the model 3 thread:

https://www3.epa.gov/otaq/datafiles/CSI ... 0.0L13.PDF

Nubo wrote: Nubo, 8/3/17 Tesla 3 (310 m pack) 106 MPGe City 118 MPGe Highway


Nubo, 8/3/17 LEAF Gen two (base) 108 MPGe City 115 MPGe Highway

Again, the 126 MPGe combined reported for the 3 makes those guesses impossible.

As to the LEAF, you don't expect too much, do you?
no condition is permanent

SageBrush
Posts: 1498
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Guess the Monroney contest: Tesla 3 and LEAF 2 efficiency ratings

Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:06 am

"If you hadn't been so committed to maintaining your ignorance"
If you had not been so committed to trolling, you would not question the Tesla sales or the presence of a Monroney ... since you knew about the photo.

Does this forum have an ignore feature ? I am quite sick of you.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

rmay635703
Posts: 420
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:43 pm

Re: Guess the Monroney contest: Tesla 3 and LEAF 2 efficiency ratings

Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:16 am

Rather odd a production car needs to have basic info about it leaked

TEG
Posts: 1388
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 8:43 pm

Re: Guess the Monroney contest: Tesla 3 and LEAF 2 efficiency ratings

Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:54 pm

Tesla Model 3 Long Range ("310 mile")
131 City
120 Highway
126 Combined

edatoakrun
Posts: 4756
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: Guess the Monroney contest: Tesla 3 and LEAF 2 efficiency ratings

Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:32 am

If you want to guess, please add yours to the columns below:

Edatoakrun, 8/3/17 Tesla 3 (310 m pack) 125 MPGe City 120 MPGe Highway
Nubo, 8/6/17 Tesla 3 (310 m pack) 106 MPGe City 118 MPGe Highway
TEG, Tesla 8/8 (310 m pack) 131 MPGe City 120 MPGe Highway


Edatoakrun, 8/3/17 LEAF Gen two (base) 140 MPGe City 120 MPGe Highway
Nubo, 8/6/17 LEAF Gen two (base) 108 MPGe City 115 MPGe Highway


TEG wrote:Tesla Model 3 Long Range ("310 mile")
131 City
120 Highway
126 Combined

You may be right about the model 3 city rating being that high.

The big surprise in the model 3 specs we now know from the subsequent leaks of the combined MPGe and model three certification report, which I was not expecting when I guessed on 8/3, was the change to (presumably) more efficient "AC 3 PHASE PERMENANT (sic) MAGNET" motors from the inefficient and problematic motors used on the S and X types.

https://www3.epa.gov/otaq/datafiles/CSI ... 0.0L13.PDF

On the other hand, the recent leaks of Nissan LEAF Gen two specs (if correct) that it will actually be ~110 lbs heavier, and slightly taller and wider than the Gen one, makes my 8/3 MPGe guesses for the Gen two look awfully optimistic.
no condition is permanent

NeilBlanchard
Posts: 607
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 5:02 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Oct 2014
Leaf Number: 306278

Re: Guess the Monroney contest: Tesla 3 and LEAF 2 efficiency ratings

Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:03 am

I think we have seen that the long range Model 3 has a Combined EPA rating of 126MPGe.

Return to “Off-Topic”