Windows 10?

Anyone upgrade to Windows 10 yet? I was all set to until I read that you cannot choose whether to install Windows updates or not - they are all mandatory and pushed by Microsoft, even if one is found to cause a problem or unrecoverable system crash. So say you have a problem after an update and you need to repair the OS - as soon as you get it working again Microsoft will come along and push the same bad update!

I also have a colleague who was told by Sony not to update his laptop at all, because Microsoft didn't have drivers for everything on it yet, and it's not even a new machine - IIRC it's gotta be at least a year old!

So, anyway, I downloaded 10 and installed to a virtual environment (Oracle VirtualBox) over the top of my Windows 7 instead of installing it as an update. I quite like it - much better than Windows 8 (which I hate with a passion!).

Cortana is fun, if not a bit gimmicky. Though I'm a bit disappointed that you have to physically activate the microphone each time you want to talk with her - it doesn't show it that way on the TV commercials. Maybe I'm missing something?

mwalsh said:

Anyone upgrade to Windows 10 yet?

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Yup, my main laptop and 3 other laptops along with 2 tablets and 6 embedded devices all went to Win10 and all behave flawlessly. I have been running Win10 since before the Release Candidates were made public. Basically as Windows 8 was rolling out to consumers, Windows 10 was being trialed with various dev teams.

mwalsh said:

I was all set to until I read that you cannot choose whether to install Windows updates or not - they are all mandatory and pushed by Microsoft, even if one is found to cause a problem or unrecoverable system crash. So say you have a problem after an update and you need to repair the OS - as soon as you get it working again Microsoft will come along and push the same bad update!

Click to expand...

First of all, yes you can prevent updates. You can't in Home, the base version that only Home users should be using. In Pro you can delay all updates for a specified amount of time. For Enterprise users, you can keep the machine locked down. And of course if you change the host file so it can't "phone home", then you get no updates on any version.

When was the last time an update caused a serious system crash, especially one that needed to repair the OS? Yes these happened way back in the day just like BSOD's. But the reality is that most people will never see this behaviour because it just works. if the update crashes your machine, then block the update for a few weeks. Seems simple to me...

mwalsh said:

I also have a colleague who was told by Sony not to update his laptop at all, because Microsoft didn't have drivers for everything on it yet, and it's not even a new machine - IIRC it's gotta be at least a year old!

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Actually the way the driver world works is that older machines get updated last. Why bother updating drivers for 2 year old machines that are "obsolete" when you have new stuff coming to market today that needs compatibility? Sony sounds like they are just fear mongering, and to me that sounds like Sony doesn't have all its bloated 3rd party drivers signed yet and that sort of thing. Every machine I have used Windows 10 has detected every device and installed the drivers automatically. On all the updates, it has worked flawlessly. And these are on some very high end machines with obscure hardware peripherals. Such as my Alienware laptop with the RGB LED control of the logos, trackpad, keyboard, and general accent lighting. That sort of "weird" and non-standard hardware works just like it did in Win8 (which I agree was horrid). Similarly my Razor laptop 17 Pro's OLED macro buttons and LCD touchpad work just as they did on Win7.

mwalsh said:

So, anyway, I downloaded 10 and installed to a virtual environment (Oracle VirtualBox) over the top of my Windows 7 instead of installing it as an update. I quite like it - much better than Windows 8 (which I hate with a passion!).

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Yep, I ran all the Win10 betas and Release Candidates inside of VMWare VM's ontop of Win7 and Win8/8.1.

mwalsh said:

Cortana is fun, if not a bit gimmicky. Though I'm a bit disappointed that you have to physically activate the microphone each time you want to talk with her - it doesn't show it that way on the TV commercials. Maybe I'm missing something?

Click to expand...

I see no reason in this world for Cortana or Siri or whatever other name they want to give a web search. If I want to Google something, that's exactly what I'll do. Open up a browser that goes straight to Google and type in my query. I do like the ability to execute command line inputs from the "search box" especially since obscuring it so much in Win8.

2k1Toaster said:

When was the last time an update caused a serious system crash, especially one that needed to repair the OS?

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About 3 months ago - an update messed up one of my Server 2003 installations and it went into a boot loop. After I'd restored to the backup I'd made just before I started to install that batch (repair from the install disc didn't work), I installed the updates more deliberately, leaving several I suspected might be the cause of the problem until last.

Then, after doing another backup, I went one at a time for those last few (rebooting each time) until I found the one causing the problem. Of course installing that one caused the error again, and I had to restore one last time before I could omit it and finish up. A bit frustrating, and quite time consuming.

So it can happen.

Funnily though, I had two other servers with the same hardware and not too dissimilar software installions I'd updated before doing this one, and they took that particular update just fine. Go figure.

I've personally had a mixed result with Windows 10. My first upgrade was on an Acer i7 desktop that originally came with Windows 8.1. That upgrade has been flawless.

My next upgrade was on a Winbook TW801 tablet. That one turned out OK, but lately I've noticed the touch screen to be sometimes unresponsive. I've done a full reset so I am waiting to see if that did the trick. Unfortunately I cannot roll that one back to Windows 8.1 as I deleted the old Windows files to make space on its puny 32GB SSD.

My most disastrous upgrade was on a Lenovo IdeaPad Lynx. At first it went well. But then I took it to a conference in Northern California and after about 5 minutes it refused to connect to hotel WiFi, or my mobile hotspot. I tried resetting it to Windows 8.1 but that didn't solve the problem. When I get the chance I'll try connecting a USB WiFi adapter to see if that will allow it to connect to WiFi again, and if so to be able to download new drivers for the built-in WiFi adapter.

Meanwhile I needed a tablet or laptop for the conference so I had to go to a local Best Buy for a new tablet. That tablet is an Asus T100. I worked great at the conference on Windows 8.1 But temptation got the best of me and I upgraded to Windows 10 as soon as I got home. One of the anomalies I am noticing now is that it doesn't charge consistently; some microUSB cables work, others don't. Worse, I've noticed that once the battery is full, if you leave it plugged in it starts to discharge again (much like a Nissan Leaf plugged in for too long). The built-in detachable keyboard with track pad sometimes freezes up as well, which I also didn't notice when it was running Windows 8.1. It's also got a puny 32GB SSD but Windows gave me the option of offloading the old Windows file onto an SD card, where it still resides. I may have to roll this one back to Windows 8.1 to see if that resolves the issues.

mwalsh said:

2k1Toaster said:

When was the last time an update caused a serious system crash, especially one that needed to repair the OS?

Click to expand...

About 3 months ago - an update messed up one of my Server 2003 installations and it went into a boot loop. After I'd restored to the backup I'd made just before I started to install that batch (repair from the install disc didn't work), I installed the updates more deliberately, leaving several I suspected might be the cause of the problem until last.

Then, after doing another backup, I went one at a time for those last few (rebooting each time) until I found the one causing the problem. Of course installing that one caused the error again, and I had to restore one last time before I could omit it and finish up. A bit frustrating, and quite time consuming.

So it can happen.

Click to expand...

Your using an OS from 2003... You should have been on Server2012 by a couple months ago considering the EOL for extended support was July and for everyone else in 2010. Not to mention you missed the entire 2008 server build... In the hundreds of PC's at our work, over many years and every update, we can count the problems on a single hand. And even then the problem is never something requires a repair. One required a reboot in Safe Mode to complete the update and then the next boot was perfect and the others went into reboot loops after the update that was fixed with a power cycle. Yes it happens and it is time consuming, but it is one of those non-issues that people think are huge issues.

RonDawg said:

I've personally had a mixed result with Windows 10. My first upgrade was on an Acer i7 desktop that originally came with Windows 8.1. That upgrade has been flawless.

My next upgrade was on a Winbook TW801 tablet. That one turned out OK, but lately I've noticed the touch screen to be sometimes unresponsive. I've done a full reset so I am waiting to see if that did the trick. Unfortunately I cannot roll that one back to Windows 8.1 as I deleted the old Windows files to make space on its puny 32GB SSD.

My most disastrous upgrade was on a Lenovo IdeaPad Lynx. At first it went well. But then I took it to a conference in Northern California and after about 5 minutes it refused to connect to hotel WiFi, or my mobile hotspot. I tried resetting it to Windows 8.1 but that didn't solve the problem. When I get the chance I'll try connecting a USB WiFi adapter to see if that will allow it to connect to WiFi again, and if so to be able to download new drivers for the built-in WiFi adapter.

Meanwhile I needed a tablet or laptop for the conference so I had to go to a local Best Buy for a new tablet. That tablet is an Asus T100. I worked great at the conference on Windows 8.1 But temptation got the best of me and I upgraded to Windows 10 as soon as I got home. One of the anomalies I am noticing now is that it doesn't charge consistently; some microUSB cables work, others don't. Worse, I've noticed that once the battery is full, if you leave it plugged in it starts to discharge again (much like a Nissan Leaf plugged in for too long). The built-in detachable keyboard with track pad sometimes freezes up as well, which I also didn't notice when it was running Windows 8.1. It's also got a puny 32GB SSD but Windows gave me the option of offloading the old Windows file onto an SD card, where it still resides. I may have to roll this one back to Windows 8.1 to see if that resolves the issues.

Click to expand...

There is no way to know if what problems you are having are related to Win10 or not. I would expect not.

I have done the Win10 update to another tablet this week (an IRULU 10.1in chinese surface knockoff) and 6 more Winbook TW100 7in tablets for a commercial installation. All of them have had zero issues.

Well there is a way to know it's caused by Win10 or not, and that is to roll it back to the previous OS. Unfortunately I cannot do that with the WinBook (deleted the old files to make space on the SSD) nor on the Asus (not enough free space on the C: drive).

The only one I was able to roll the OS back on was the Lenovo, and the upgrade still could have caused some issue with the driver for the WiFi adapter. I haven't had a chance to connect a third party adapter yet to see if I can get it to connect.

2k1Toaster said:

Your using an OS from 2003... You should have been on Server2012 by a couple months ago considering the EOL for extended support was July and for everyone else in 2010. Not to mention you missed the entire 2008 server build... In the hundreds of PC's at our work, over many years and every update, we can count the problems on a single hand. And even then the problem is never something requires a repair. One required a reboot in Safe Mode to complete the update and then the next boot was perfect and the others went into reboot loops after the update that was fixed with a power cycle. Yes it happens and it is time consuming, but it is one of those non-issues that people think are huge issues.

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There has LITERALLY been no money for upgrades unless it was an absolute emergency. I haven't worked for more than 24 hours a week for the last 6 years and have actually been on layoff since the end of June (I had to let my Junior Sysadmin/Desktop Supprot guy go way before that). So in my mind I kinda get an out when it comes to EOL for 2003 (July) happening on my watch, whether anyone else agrees or not. Don't even ask what they're still using as the desktop OS on a majority of the PCs!

We didn't miss 2008 entirely - we went with SBS 2011 instead.

In my search for a new job, I did come across this listing a few days ago - "Must have experience with Windows NT4.0 server :shock: and Windows XP desktop".

Converted all four machines here to it and all are running fine, better than they did on 8.1 Pro, in fact.

mwalsh said:

Anyone upgrade to Windows 10 yet?

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A small niggle, but I have found one thing I don't care for - now that I've joined it to a domain, it boots to the lock screen instead of a login screen, and the lock screen doesn't contain any information on what you're supposed to do. I don't know if the same held true with Windows 8.x.

I can see users (particularly the less sophisticated ones) sitting down at a brand new install, after having been upgraded in their absence by the IT department, and calling up desktop support saying, "I don't know how to log in". Might be time to get a bunch of custom Post-It-Notes printed up - "You still use CTRL-ALT-DEL". :lol:

This last comment of connecting to your domain is interesting ... I'm assuming you're using MS AD (Active Directory), what version ?

We have yet to have time to try Win '10 but will sometime soon -- we'll have to see if we get the same result.

We'll plan on staying on Win 7 Ultimate (we use multi-language throughout) for the foreseeable future and upgraded our last server to '08 R2 awhile back from '03, no hurry for '12 as it hasn't been 'certified' for some of the apps we run.

You do realize that MS will support Win 7 through 2020 (5 years from now) so perhaps a 'novelty' at present, Win 7 is quite stable so most businesses wouldn't have a compelling reason to upgrade, unless they don't have an in-house staff that can re-image PC's that start coming with it?

We are watching the whole new 'subscription' based approach for MS Office (Office 365) fairly closely as well as this latest 'free' (initially, anyway) approach that MS is using as well for this OS release; not surprising with all the SaaS out there as well as it will eventually provide perhaps a more widespread revenue stream for them and perhaps less pirated usage of their products

redLEAF said:

This last comment of connecting to your domain is interesting ... I'm assuming you're using MS AD (Active Directory), what version ?

We have yet to have time to try Win '10 but will sometime soon -- we'll have to see if we get the same result.

We'll plan on staying on Win 7 Ultimate (we use multi-language throughout) for the foreseeable future and upgraded our last server to '08 R2 awhile back from '03, no hurry for '12 as it hasn't been 'certified' for some of the apps we run.

You do realize that MS will support Win 7 through 2020 (5 years from now) so perhaps a 'novelty' at present, Win 7 is quite stable so most businesses wouldn't have a compelling reason to upgrade, unless they don't have an in-house staff that can re-image PC's that start coming with it?

We are watching the whole new 'subscription' based approach for MS Office (Office 365) fairly closely as well as this latest 'free' (initially, anyway) approach that MS is using as well for this OS release; not surprising with all the SaaS out there as well as it will eventually provide perhaps a more widespread revenue stream for them and perhaps less pirated usage of their products

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I've got 2012 R2 running under my VirtualBox installation too, and I joined the 10 installation to it. I'm using the setup as a study lab for updating my 2003 MCSE to the current one.

I wonder if there might be a GP where it could be forced to the login screen - that might make the most sense. Although, after you've told a user once I doubt there would be any reason to remind them. It's just a silly thing I latched onto as being weird.

Most of my (almost) former employer's desktops are still XP, with a handful on Windows 7 and Mac OS X. I hate Windows 8 and pretty much refused to update or buy any new equipment with it installed (not that we really had any money). It appears I won't have the same feelings when it comes to Windows 10. I was fortunate that I was able to still get Windows 7 on the last batch of hardware we bought, which I guess would have been in the summer of 2012. I didn't realize that support on 7 went through 2020, so thanks for that info. I guess I only worry about EOL when I start getting the notifications from MS.

How are those desktops still on XP? Your employer must spending big dollars on maintenance unless it is self supporting or going commando on OS support.

I hate the whole Apple fanboy thing, but after our family's experience with the last couple of Microsoft OS's, we have finally dumped all of our troublesome Microsoft platforms and made the move to Apple. I should have done it years ago.

MS10 free upgrade? Then you have to pay extra so you play solitaire without pop up ads? And pay another $15 to activate the DVD drive? Come on MS, that is ridiculous. I put Microsoft and Toyota on the 2025 bankrupt companies list for not offering what their customers want. I mean seriously, give users their damned start button if they want it!

mjblazin said:

How are those desktops still on XP? Your employer must spending big dollars on maintenance unless it is self supporting or going commando on OS support.

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Well, EOL for XP was only April of last year, so we haven't been playing all that footloose. As to why - see my previous post about the company not having any money. Yes, there definitely needs to be an upgrade sooner rather than later (if the company actually does survive), and it's been something I've been harping on for a while, but, hey, it's hardly my problem anymore.

I'd like to think I chose well when it came to using Dell as our preferred hardware partner. Yes, we got burned a bit on the capacitor scandal of a few years ago, but who outside of the cap manufacturers could have seen that coming? I'd been changing out caps on some MBs and scrapping others (a good GX-280 board got to be about $25 refurbished on eBay - including shipping - hardly worth fixing the boards myself at that price). The only other hardware problems we've really had with the Dells are some CPU heatsink issues on Precision 370 workstations and the occasional PSU going bad.

What I've done for hardware maintenance is I've been taking the machines of employees who have been laid-off or quit and cannibalizing them for the parts I need to keep things going otherwise. It hasn't been that big a deal, and since they went from about 75 employees at peak down to around 15 before my lay-off, I had plenty of spare machines to work with.

asimba2 said:

I hate the whole Apple fanboy thing, but after our family's experience with the last couple of Microsoft OS's, we have finally dumped all of our troublesome Microsoft platforms and made the move to Apple. I should have done it years ago.

MS10 free upgrade? Then you have to pay extra so you play solitaire without pop up ads? And pay another $15 to activate the DVD drive? Come on MS, that is ridiculous. I put Microsoft and Toyota on the 2025 bankrupt companies list for not offering what their customers want. I mean seriously, give users their damned start button if they want it!

Click to expand...

Windows 10 does have a start button. You don't have to pay 15 to activate a DVD drive. The $15 is for a codec to play a DVD movie which you can get for free just about anywhere. Plus who even has an optical drive in their systems anymore let alone watches a DVD on it. The solitaire thing is optional and there are plenty of free games and seems a little nit picky.

I support both Microsoft and Apple stuff on a daily basis and they both have there "troublesome" aspects. Again I can point out lots of stuff about Apple but really it is hard to complain about a free upgrade to windows 10. Even people who had pirated Windows are getting the upgrade for free.

To get back on topic - I have upgraded a number of systems already and other then minor usually driver related issues everything went great. I did my two main systems fairly early on - both a desktop and a laptop and they are working great. I never really had any big problems with Windows 8/8.1 and thought it was a pretty solid operating system disregarding the gripes out the start screen. If you wanted a start screen in Windows 8/8.1 it was pretty easy to get a replacement anyways.

mwalsh said:

I wonder if there might be a GP where it could be forced to the login screen - that might make the most sense.

Click to expand...

I too noticed that with Windows 10, when I open up my laptop from sleeping it went to this new lock screen, rather than the login screen. I googled it and found some registry entry to change to go directly to the login screen (sorry I forget the details, I think I googled "windows 10 turn off lock screen"). That might also work for your situation.

Cheers, Wayne

Although perhaps you may already know ... Upgrading to Win 10 from Win 7 you'll lose the desktop gadgets (local weather, converters, today's date, etc.) and windows media center, this last one again just for using an optical drive that many don't use.

We're actually finally taking advantage of 64-bit MS OS from 32-bit as we have engineers who can use it for CAD software; makes a big difference on reponse times for image rendering, etc., haven't checked this aspect of Win 10 yet.

For the 'casual', non-business user, I'm sure Win 10 will be fine, as long as no unresolved driver issues as mentioned earlier; we however have LOTS of users here that absolutely freak with just about any change so will wait for a bit more bug fixes as I'm sure will come, NO PC's with Win 8 and no mac's (at work anyway) ... love my personal Mac at home and typing on this iPad though, Win 10 is trying at least to be more user friendly, so we'll see ...

Not to continue being a naysayer (for Win 7 users and early Win 10 adopters) but a few more words on this topic ...

http://www.infoworld.com/article/29...ld-off-if-you-use-windows-7.html#tk.ifw-infsb





"Yet another Microsoft update, but It's the same bug all over again -- and it looks like Windows 10 feature improvements will wait for October"


http://www.infoworld.com/article/29...01678cb2c55#tk.IFWNLE_nlt_daily_pm_2015-08-17

And finally, this little tidbit ...

'Windows 10 – Microsoft’s Big Data-grabbing (or spying?) OS'

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/wind...ogAurcw&fromEmail=fromEmail&ut=3HOK4BcpFDbSU1