home security camera DVR/NVR kit recommendations?

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cwerdna

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 3, 2011
Messages
13,674
Location
SF Bay Area, CA
I'm in the market for a complete kit (cameras + DVR/NVR) after my house got broken into in mid-January. I've NEVER had any place of residence broken into before. This house was built in 1979 and never had a break-in until now.

I had a Dropcam Pro inside and could see 2 people in the house, one quite clearly visible but the camera was in IR mode as they left the lights off. I wasn't even on vacation!

I just was late coming home from work + errands. The broke right before 9:14 pm on a Wednesday night. I could see them shining flashlights into the kitchen from the backyard (surrounded by a fence) at ~9:07 pm.

There's been a huge surge of burglaries in my area in the past few weeks. On 1/23/15, a house 6 houses away from me on a street connected to mine got broken into. On 1/27/15, its neighbor (5 houses from me) was hit. 6 other houses were burglarized that night, but in a neighborhood a few miles away.

I want a complete DVR system w/outdoor cameras monitoring all possible points of entry (doors and windows), so I'm guessing (depending on field of vision of the camera), I'd want at least 6 exterior cameras, maybe as many as 10.

I really am not keen on DIY setups or anything like cameras direct from Chinese companies like Hikvision and Dahua. I don't care about SD card storage as I'm sure not going to climb up on a ladder (possibly the 2nd story) to swap SD cards. I really do NOT want to have a PC dedicated for recording. I don't have an extra PC I can spare.

My only current experience is w/2 Dropcam Pros and their web UI + iOS (iPhone and iPad) and Android phone apps.

I don't know all my pre-reqs yet, but I can think of these:
- DVR storage
- weatherproof cameras w/720p res or better preferred
- reliable motion detection w/o too many false alarms and the ability to exclude certain zones
- decent software that can highlight where in a timeline there's been activity detected.
- decent track record of manufacturer's support to fix bugs and fix security holes/bugs
- reliable hardware
- ability to copy stills (JPGs?) and movie files off (USB flash/hard drive, SD card or microSD card, network are all ok)
- motion alerts on my mobile device (iOS preferred)
- ability to view video remotely from mobile device
- ability to fast forward thru video/create or view a time lapse video

I'd REALLY hate to spend a whole ton of $ on hardware and a contractor to install it all to only have stuff crap out or for the system to turn out to be a piece of crap that's flaky, is buggy, has unreliable motion detection or too many false detections, etc.

I'd also hate it if the system has horrible security holes that are never patched because the vendor decided to abandon it and move onto the next product.

I'm not on a really tight budget. I figure the max I'd be willing to spend on hardware is between $1K and $1.5K. I'll pay whatever it takes to have a reputable installer do the work. Not sure where I should look for that though...

I really don't have time for a new hobby (e.g. http://www.networkcameracritic.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) and to experiment w/random cameras, PoE switches, NAS boxes, software, random resellers on Amazon, Alibaba, etc. I just want a complete system that a contractor can install onto a house.

I saw a Samsung (too low res for me) and Lorex system at my local Costco. At http://www.costco.com/surveillance-systems.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, besides Swann, I see brands like AvertX, Lorex, Q-See but some seem to have bad reviews.

Swann seems to be constantly a name that comes up but I have no idea which of these systems/vendors are good/bad.

At Fry's, I also saw brands like ZModo, Revo, and Night Owl. Some are Chinese companies (e.g. ZModo) so I'm not sure I want to bother. AvertX seems kinda new (founded in 2012?) and reviews like http://reviews.costco.com/2070/100033071/pc-open-inc-dba-avertx-avertx-16-channel-professional-ip-hd-security-system-with-2tb-hard-drive-and-8-1080p-ir-bullet-cameras-reviews/reviews.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; give me pause.

Where's a good place place to discuss pros, cons, find reviews, etc.?

Or, should I say screw it and go w/an ADT alarm system + pay for their cameras and monitoring? I will probably be installing an alarm from someone, in the near future.
 
We have the Logitach Alert cameras around our house. I believe Logitech stopped making them and will soon not support them. But the two things I REALLY like are. First each camera has an SD card in it and can capture and then stream what it captured later. So even with no network, your still recording. Each camera is also a mini web server of sorts. Secondly the software doesn't need to be running 24x7. Once you open it up it starts downloading the captured video files from each camera to you PC for longer storage and viewing. I like that it can be used as a web camera, but also is independent of the web. I like that in the software I can view all the cameras at once in any speed at the same time, it is really neat to watch a lightening storm in slow motion across all the camera's. The Logitech camera's connect to one another not with wi-fi but with "powerline or by sending signal over traditional power lines in the home to a central location that has a hard-wire connection the the network. I haven't had any issues with poor signal or anything like that.

My problem with the drop cam is the uploading. I couldn't have 6 cameras running 24x7, not enough upload bandwidth (each camera uses about 300k), and then I am relying on the network being up and Dropcam being up. And of course there is the cost of the Dropcam remote monthly recording fee's

Overall the Logitech cameras are ok and the software is OK, but I have had two camera fail now in the last 6 months and the replacement costs are absurd.

I was looking at the Samsung SmartCam HD as a possible replacement, but not sure how the software end works.
 
I have a Q-See system in my house with 8 cameras, but the quality/resolution of their cameras is appallingly bad. I would never be able to identify an intruder's face with it. I'm in the process of swapping out a few of the cameras to higher quality (1,000 line resolution), but I'm not sure that is going to help much.
I recently ordered a Zmodo setup for my chiropractor and evaluated it. The cameras are 720p HD that needs Cat5-type cables. The video quality is MUCH, MUCH better than my analog setup. However, I do see a lot of negative comments about Zmodo relating to the reliability of the cameras, especially with moisture buildup inside them.
The other thing that makes a big difference is the type of video compression the DVR uses to store the info to the harddrive. I think the Zmodo offered h.264. I would buy the biggest harddrive I could afford, so I can use the highest quality compression. Otherwise, the playback video may be useless for identification.
I'm still in the process of researching what to replace my Q-See system with, and hopefully some guys on the forum with more experience will speak up.
 
I setup (hobby gone awry) 15 "Defender 4 Ultra Resolution Outdoor 100 ft Night Vision Security Cameras ,21006" analog cameras paired with 4 "IP Video 9100A Plus Network Video Server" and wrote my own DVR software (enhanced 'motion' on Linux) on a 10TB server (also serves audio, DVDs, etc). The cameras are setup to watch every door and window and each other. I also have Hall sensors on every door (and my sheds) and inside and outside motion detectors. When anything unexpected happens (within a customizable time frame) not only is everything recorded but an internal loud speaker fires off.

The system already paid off for me. When nobody was home, a 'gentlemen' drove under my carport, got out, looked directly into the camera, got back into his car and took off.
 
BrockWI: Re: Logitech Alert, interesting. I'd never heard of those before and couldn't even find the cameras on their web site. I'm of course familiar w/Logitech and have had their products going back to serial (RS232) mice!

For outdoor stuff, I found only crazy expensive stuff like http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Outdoor-Quality-Security-961-000338/dp/B003X26LYQ/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1423348866&sr=1-1&keywords=logitech+alert+outdoor" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (750e for $519 with a single camera?!!? or 700e for $904?!!?? with a single camera).

I guess that's out.

I hear you about Dropcam uploading and fees. Each camera if recording 24/7 consumes about 60 GB/month of bandwidth. I'm concerned my ISP will start enforcing bandwidth caps (currently at 250 GB/month and not being enforced yet). They've been trials in various areas for awhile: http://customer.comcast.com/help-and-support/internet/data-usage-trials" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. I wouldn't want to have more than 3 Dropcams or maybe 4. And, they're not weatherproof.

Re: Samsung SmartCam HD, I read http://www.cnet.com/products/samsung-smartcam-hd-pro/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and saw the picture quality. No thanks. Doesn't even seem worth it for $140 at Costco... and again, that's not weatherproof either.

Samsung has this outdoor guy: http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-SmartCam-Outdoor-SNH-E6440BN-Camera/product-reviews/B00P1NAPPQ/ref=cm_cr_dp_see_all_btm?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; but I don't think I'd go that way. To have a lot of these would be too expensive and the reviews (esp. of some features I'd want to work reliably) also aren't great.
 
Yes what I would like is similar to the logitech, but better quality camera's and more reliable. And yes since Logitech doesn't list them anymore on their site and the cost went WAY up on amazon, I figured they were discontinued or about to be. None of my outdoor ones have failed, just two on the indoor ones. The outdoor units are true outdoor cameras and have held up in the weather. I bought most of mine for about $150 refurbished between 3 and 5 years ago.

I read those reviews of the samsung HD outside ones as well. The specs are certainly better than the logitech, I have been tempted to buy one to compare software, connectivity, image quality and such, but right now I have all the critical spaces covered.
 
keydiver said:
I recently ordered a Zmodo setup for my chiropractor and evaluated it. The cameras are 720p HD that needs Cat5-type cables. The video quality is MUCH, MUCH better than my analog setup. However, I do see a lot of negative comments about Zmodo relating to the reliability of the cameras, especially with moisture buildup inside them.
Re: Zmodo, found out a guy at my work has http://slickdeals.net/f/7440744-zmodo-4x-720p-camera-4ch-1tb-all-in-one-poe-surveillance-kit-204-99-fs-newegg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. It's incredibly cheap, but it's Zmodo and would be too few channels for me. He's only had it for ~2 months.

He showed me their Android software and some live video and it looked pretty good. But, I have an aversion to buying a system from a seemingly random Chinese company. I could be out a whole bunch of $ and need to spend more to install a replacement.

So, anyone have thoughts on other complete DVR kit vendors (e.g. Swann, Samsung, Q-See, AvertX, Night Owl, Lorex, etc.)?

I've been way too busy to do much research but I'm leaning towards Swann and something that's 720p or above. I'd rather have more cameras that are 720p than fewer but are 1080p. It's not because Swann strikes me as a must buy but it seems like nobody's residential/retail systems are that great but Swann's been in business for a long time and the founder's last name is the brand (http://swann.com/downloads/product/Swann Corporate Profile.pdf).
 
To me the cameras are the most important part. Liquor store owners frequently cheap out. Sometimes the paper will print a picture of the robber. Many times all you can say is it was a white or black guy. All of the details are missing.

Long Beach was putting camera's in parks when I retired. They were IP HDMI cameras and they cost more than $1200 each.
 
GlennD said:
To me the cameras are the most important part. Liquor store owners frequently cheap out. Sometimes the paper will print a picture of the robber. Many times all you can say is it was a white or black guy. All of the details are missing.

I have a coworker he takes somethings seriously. One of those things is security cameras.

The biggest concern you should have is having high enough resolution to actually see facial details/license plates. If you can't achieve this then your cameras are just for fun. Unfortunately I think for $2000 you are just looking at for fun cameras. Not to say that this is bad since they are a lot of fun and that's what I have since it's hard for me to justify the kind of expense of real cameras.

High resolution cameras that are aimed and located in such a way that the reasonable points of entry into your property/house are covered with enough illumination so they still can see at night.

FWIW we use http://www.nuuo.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for the DVRs and http://www.arecontvision.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for the cameras.

Also, sorry about your break in :( I really hope I can spend most of life not experiencing this so I can be ignorant and not feel violated/etc.
 
^^^
Interesting... I'd never heard of the above companies. Seems like the cheapest NVR from the former seems to be $1K, at min.

The latter has a TON of cameras but it seems even a couple MegaView 2 series I looked up are quite pricey.

I'm probably going to go with http://www.costco.com/Swann-8-Channel-HD-NVR-Security-System-with-2TB-HDD-and-8-3MP-HD-IP-Cameras.product.100146087.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Costco has an arrangement w/them for a 3 year warranty. I might only install 6 cameras and keep 2 as spares.

I believe it comes w/8 of these cameras:
http://www.swann.com/us/swnhd-820cam" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.costco.com/Swann-3MP-HD-IP-Add-on-Bullet-Camera-2-pk.product.100146709.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
review: http://www.networkcameracritic.com/?p=1444" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

sample videos (change quality to 1080p via the gear and go Full Screen): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKexNhcI4GI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAl9q9aRptw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I was hoping to save some $ by going w/a 720p system, as I figure that resolution is good enough, but I haven't found anything that would give me a big savings and it seems like there aren't many review (and not many positive ones) of Swann's 720p PoE systems.

After talking to one person and reading around a bit, I think it's better if I go w/PoE (Power over Ethernet) cameras as there's only 1 to run and that also allows them to have a web-based UI and be used w/other NVRs or even a computer, if I want to ditch the supplied NVR.
 
Wow, that's an amazing deal. Interesting they focus so much on 1080p but they are 2048 x 1536 cameras. I think you definitely have to give these a try and let me know how you like them. My boss wired for ethernet cameras but never installed as he couldn't find anything good and affordable.
 
a) Cwerdna, sorry to hear about your house getting broken into...that real sucks. I hate people who steal more than almost anything else.

b) Trying to find some pretty basic IP cameras for our Church. More for "Did somebody really break into the Church or is it our flaky alarm system acting up again" and a bit of visual deterrent more than anything else. Really don't want to spend more than $50-$60 a piece. Anybody have a recommendation? I was thinking of these:

http://www.amazon.com/Foscam-FI8918W-Wireless-Network-Viewing/dp/B0046710G6/ref=cm_wl_huc_item" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
A DVR is a much better choice if your internet is slow. Due to the constant updates being done on DVRs, feature-wise they don’t fall behind much from NVR The main difference between the two is that DVR can be used even without an internet connection but it has the capability of being connected online for remote viewing. DVRs don’t have a cloud storage facility but they do have a hard drive that allows storage. I recently bought a wired cctv camera from api alarms http://www.apialarm.com/ though the wiring and the positioning of the camera can be difficult they provide more security and can prevent hackers from breaking into your own private network. I would prefer a DVR wired setting.
 
I've been looking for a ~$500 system for a year, and have yet to find one that is:

* Any good.

* If it was every good, is still good now (ZMODO and others supposedly have gotten much worse).

* Has (at least two) cameras.


Wired with a DVR is fine with me, and I'll pay extra for a terrabyte HD. Wireless cams seem to offer all the hassles of wired (for power wires) plus the extra hassle of poor signal connection. I'd rather run one or two cables 50' than have to run two 25' power cables and then have to worry about losing signal. I have yet to find anything. It seems that several companies have offered good gear initially, then sold out to other Chinese companies that then cut the quality to boost profits. The customer service suffers as well...
 
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