Best choice for 120mi RT commute

Friend asking me for advice... no workplace charging and Tesla is too much money. He's thinking the options are:
1) Honda Accord Hybrid 2015
2) Ford Fussion Hybrid 2015
3) Lexus CT 200h 2015
4) Toyota Prius 2015

I wondered about the sonata hybrid. Any other ideas?

The Prius PHEV has the lowest EV range of those vehicles, IIRC, but also the best real world fuel economy once the EV portion of its charge is exhausted, especially if part of the commute is on secondary roads. If you want the EV experience for as much of the drive as possible, look at both that and the non-EV MPG for each car. If all that matters to you is the MPG, I suggest the Prius, aka "PIP."

Good possibility, I also suggested the Volt, but racking up that kind of mileage it would have to be a purchase.

Volt probably, especially if they have workplace L1 charging. An i3 would require buying gas daily. Costwise, a PiP or regular Prius. Best answer: Move closer or change jobs

I didn't suggest the Volt because with no charging at work the car would turn in fairly mediocre overall fuel economy.

Moving/job change isn't an option. No workplace charging, and when you're starting a new job you don't want to be making requests on day 1

I haven't heard much about the ct200.

LeftieBiker said:

The Prius PHEV has the lowest EV range of those vehicles, IIRC, but also the best real world fuel economy once the EV portion of its charge is exhausted, especially if part of the commute is on secondary roads. If you want the EV experience for as much of the drive as possible, look at both that and the non-EV MPG for each car. If all that matters to you is the MPG, I suggest the Prius, aka "PIP."

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OP said "Toyota Prius 2015", not Plug-in Prius. I'm under the assumption that they're getting the non-plugin version, making the above moot.

As for #1, just say no to Honda hybrids. After more than decade of doing NiMH hybrids that they couldn't get right, I have little confidence that they miraculously got li-ion right w/the switchover that began w/the '12 model year. See below, for examples:

http://priuschat.com/threads/salvage-traction-battery.89071/#post-1252078" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; on Honda NiMH weaknesses
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/aug/14/business/la-fi-honda-20100815" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://consumerreports.org/cro/news/2014/02/honda-civic-hybrid-battery-reliability-gets-worse/index.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

#3 - I wouldn't bother. I don't like its styling. Its EPA mileage rating is lower than the Prius and it's slower than the Prius, despite having the Prius drivetrain. It's also classified as a compact vs. the midsized Prius. See specs tab of http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=35614&id=35556&id=35736&id=35259" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. However, its interior bits are better than any Prius. Don't know if the OP's friend is in California or a CARB emission state. If yes, the CT also doesn't receive the 10 year/150K mile HV battery warranty that the AT-PZEV Prius has. CT isn't AT-PZEV, so it receives a 8 year/100K mile HV battery warranty.

If OP's friend isn't in a CARB state, the warranty points are moot. Non-CARB states only get the 8 year/100K mile HV battery warranty, even on Priuses.

For the above kind of money and mileage hit, I'd MUCH rather have a 200 hp midsized Camry Hybrid, which is EPA rated at 41 mpg combined vs. a compact 42 mpg slower than a midsized 50 mpg Prius car... I'd imagine he'd find the ride to be a lot better in the HyCam than the Prius and CT, which might be important for such a long commute.

I briefly checked Consumer Reports and found the Fusion Hybrid has just average reliability. So, at least it wouldn't be totally ruled out in my book. For my money, I'd take HyCam over FFH.

Since no model was specified (i.e. "Prius II") I offered the PIP as the best "Prius" option. If it isn't available wherever the guy lives, then obviously it isn't an option. If it is they often go for about the same as a Prius II. Personally I'd take a 40MPG Volt (once EV range is expended, so maybe 50MPG for the commute) with real EV range over a 42MPG Camry hybrid, but that depends on how much "sport" he's looking for, vs economy.

^^^
Since the OP didn't mentioned PHEV versions of any of the others, I assumed the Prius wasn't either. There are the the Fusion Energi (PHEV) and Accord PHEV.

PiP is significantly more expensive than non-plugin Prius. However, PiP after incentives, Federal tax credit and California CVRP often is comparable in price for non-plugin Prius: http://driveclean.ca.gov/pev/Costs/Vehicles.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and https://energycenter.org/clean-vehicle-rebate-project" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

If one's state doesn't have anything similar, PiP is very likely going to be more $.

I'm not even sure the pip is available in Florida.

LTLFTcomposite said:

Friend asking me for advice... no workplace charging and Tesla is too much money. He's thinking the options are:
1) Honda Accord Hybrid 2015
2) Ford Fussion Hybrid 2015
3) Lexus CT 200h 2015
4) Toyota Prius 2015

I wondered about the sonata hybrid. Any other ideas?

Click to expand...

How about an ELIO, 84mpg at only $6,400 new. Great for this type of commute.

PiP is significantly more expensive than non-plugin Prius. However, PiP after incentives, Federal tax credit and California CVRP often is comparable in price for non-plugin Prius:

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I'm not sure why you emphasize California - the PIP is often cheaper to buy or lease here in NY as well, with no state incentive. My housemate got hers for a lease rate of $179 a month with $1999 down (plus the horrid state tax on leases), when the Prius II was $199 a month with $2300 or so down, also plus tax. Once again, if a model isn't available in your state, and you really don't want to transport it in from elsewhere, you simply don't get one.

LeftieBiker said:

PiP is significantly more expensive than non-plugin Prius. However, PiP after incentives, Federal tax credit and California CVRP often is comparable in price for non-plugin Prius:

Click to expand...

I'm not sure why you emphasize California - the PIP is often cheaper to buy or lease here in NY as well, with no state incentive. My housemate got hers for a lease rate of $179 a month with $1999 down (plus the horrid state tax on leases), when the Prius II was $199 a month with $2300 or so down, also plus tax. Once again, if a model isn't available in your state, and you really don't want to transport it in from elsewhere, you simply don't get one.

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I live in California, not NY. I haven't tracked CA market Prius prices all the closely after buying mine in 06, esp. now that my interests have shifted to the Leaf, let alone the situation in NY or many other states. But, I've NEVER known of a time in CA when a PiP could be bought for LESS than a non-plugin Prius in CA WITHOUT either a combination of incentives, tax credit and CVRP.

Here are prices from a legendary So Cal saleswomen who I've met a few times:
http://priuschat.com/threads/2015-plugins-diannes-socal-deals.147277/#post-2103580" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://priuschat.com/threads/diannes-socal-all-things-prius-deals-2014-2015-models-here.147276/#axzz3JtWPzfo1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

$22,199 for a Prius Two is a lot less than $28,999 for a base PiP. In fact, all the models: Two thru Five and Persona are less than the base PiP.

As for leasing, I've never been interested in leasing a Prius. I've never seen much chatter about it on Priuschat or I've just ignored it. I've met 0 Prius drivers of any sort who leased theirs, AFAIK. Every one of them bought theirs.

LTLFTcomposite said:

I'm not even sure the pip is available in Florida.

Click to expand...

http://www.toyota.com/prius-plug-in-hybrid/#!/features/common-questions/where-can-i-buy-one" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; doesn't list Florida as a one of the 15 states where the PiP is available.

I'm not going to suggest oil burning options if there is an electric alternative.

With that in mind, one "hybrid" option is the 6.6kW charger LEAF and a good pure sine wave quiet generator that can handle 240 volt at 20 amps or greater.

This generator can be left at work and it would need to be operated about 3 hours daily, and refueled every other day. You would need an EVSE with an L14-30 plug set to 22 amps or less for this generator:

http://powerequipment.honda.com/generators/models/eu7000is" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AC Output: 240v 5500W rated 22.9A
Receptacle: L14-30 - 30A 125/250V Locking Plug
DC Output N/A
Starting System: Recoil, electric
Fuel Tank Capacity: 5.1 gal.
Run Time per Tankful: 6 hrs.@ rated load
Dimensions (L x W x H): 33.3" x 27.6" x 28.4"
Noise Level: 60 dB(A) @ rated load, 52 dB(A) @ 1/4 load
Dry Weight: 262 pounds
Residential Warranty 3 Years
Commercial Warranty 3 Years
Perfect for home back up power, RVs, outdoor events, and more
Super quiet
Convenient electric start
Inverter - stable power for computers and more
Fuel injected - better fuel efficency and lower maintenance
MSRP
4499.95*

Option 2 is to buy a used Toyota RAV4 EV.

Problem solved, no additional oil burning options required. Drive 65mph or less without heater use (air conditioner use is ok). If you're coming up short for any reason, just slow down a bit for the entire trip. Driving 55mph will add over 20 miles of additional range versus 65mph.

Pick one of these and ship it:

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/Used+Cars/Hybrid+~+Electric/Toyota/RAV4/San+Diego+CA-92128?endYear=2014&keywordPhrases=Ev&listingType=used&listingTypes=used&makeCode1=TOYOTA&mmt=%5BTOYOTA%5BRAV4%5BRAV4%7CEV%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D&modelCode1=RAV4&searchRadius=0&showcaseOwnerId=100027428&startYear=2012&vehicleStyleCodes=HYBEL&Log=0&showcaseOwnerId=100027428&captureSearch=true&fromSIP=13D685A395C21338D10BFCF23E39BC0F&showToolbar=true&Log=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I own three of them and will be selling my 2012 RAV4 EV early next year with a CHAdeMO port installed (called "JdeMO" by Quick Charge Power).

Making a good impression at a new job and running a gasoline generator in the parking lot and storing it in your cube at night presents some interesting social dynamics.

Can you get service on a rav4 ev in Florida?

LTLFTcomposite said:

Can you get service on a rav4 ev in Florida?

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There are already RAV4 EV's in all the large population states like Florida. As to service, any Toyota dealer with hybrid certified techs can service it, but Toyota USA has given them a lot of crap in the past to try and discourage out-of-state sales.

Now that all the cars are mostly sold, I expect that they might lighten up a bit on service.


Here's a link to some of those issues:

Rav4 - Kevin Spillane warranty harassment

http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=11234#p11234" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Just got off the phone with Kevin Spillane, Toyota Customer rep for the Rav4EV. We had a long discussion on out-of-state servicing, and what Toyota will do for us, and what they won't do for us.

It breaks down to 3 scenarios.

1) "Toyota Customer Care"... 5K 10K checkups etc. Not covered outside of CA authorized dealers. I've already been down this road with my 5k at my local dealer... 5K performed, then denied by Toyota. No matter what your dealer tells you, it won't be covered under "Toyota Customer Care"

2) Ev drivetrain problems, mostly Tesla stuff. Not covered outside of CA authorized dealers.

3) Good news, Toyota is willing to help out-of-state'er for some non EV drivetrain failures like my co-workers failed heater on a "case by case basis". They have an authorized field engineer coming to a local dealer to perform the work. It has nothing to do with the dealer themselves, it's just a place to work on the car.

It's nice to hear there is some flexibility with Toyota's warranty support for out-of-state owners. That heater repair is over $3000 in parts alone, so it gives me a little peace of mind. I'm still prepared to ship to CA for big stuff... 10,000 miles so far and zero issues.

how about a VW TDI diesel. Or if you are just piling the miles on a commuter car an old used geo metro.

johnrhansen said:

how about a VW TDI diesel. Or if you are just piling the miles on a commuter car an old used geo metro.

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That's not a bad idea. I wonder if the higher cost of diesel fuel, DEF, and general headaches with Volkswagen reliability would wipe out any savings.