Bay Area class tensions relating to tech workers & shuttles

For those in the SF Bay Area, not sure how many if you have heard of this issue relating to tensions in cities like SF and Oakland about tech workers living there and using private shuttles provided by their employers (e.g. Google, Apple, etc.).

http://www.npr.org/blogs/alltechconsidered/2013/12/17/251960183/in-a-divided-san-francisco-private-tech-buses-drive-tension" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://blog.sfgate.com/stew/2013/12/20/bus-blocked-again-in-tech-boom-backlash/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.theverge.com/2013/12/20/5231758/protesters-target-silicon-valley-shuttles-smash-google-bus-window" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://techcrunch.com/2014/01/06/charging-tech-shuttles-for-muni-bus-stops/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - Seems crazy that the the city will likely start charging companies $100K/year to use these bus...errr.. shuttle stops.

I recently showed one of the 1st three stories (or something related to it) to someone who's lived in SF for over 7 years and works in the South Bay. She was unaware of this tension, probably because her company doesn't provide any shuttles to/from SF

This is ridiculous. What's next, throwing rocks at luxury cars in protest at the "inequality"?

No one should feel entitled to live in a particular, desirable area at a price that they find to be affordable. The last I checked, residential real estate is owned by private parties, not by the government. I understand that gentrification is squeezing out lower income folks in SF and that has caused hardships, but such is the nature of real estate markets. There are plenty of other, desirable places to live that are far less expensive. One factor that attracted my family and me personally to where we live is the relatively low cost of real estate.

Many people may find that their best option is to leave the Bay Area altogether. Rent controls simply distort the market and postpone the inevitable.

abasile said:

This is ridiculous. What's next, throwing rocks at luxury cars in protest at the "inequality"?

No one should feel entitled to live in a particular, desirable area at a price that they find to be affordable. The last I checked, residential real estate is owned by private parties, not by the government. I understand that gentrification is squeezing out lower income folks in SF and that has caused hardships, but such is the nature of real estate markets. There are plenty of other, desirable places to live that are far less expensive. One factor that attracted my family and me personally to where we live is the relatively low cost of real estate.

Many people may find that their best option is to leave the Bay Area altogether. Rent controls simply distort the market and postpone the inevitable.

Click to expand...

Have you seen the movie "Elysium"?

Where will most of the world live once 'the inevitable' spreads?

AndyH said:

Have you seen the movie "Elysium"?

Where will most of the world live once 'the inevitable' spreads?

Click to expand...

I have, in a theater. Thanks for bringing that up. It does add another perspective to this issue.

Traffic in SF tends to really suck and traffic during rush hour on the highways in the direction that workers predominantly go also really sucks. The shuttles help alleviate that/prevent the traffic from getting even worse.

Violence isn't the right solution though. It just occurred to me that perhaps this is partly what Occupy Wall Street has morphed into, after all that died down.

I understand that gentrification is squeezing out lower income folks in SF and that has caused hardships, but such is the nature of real estate markets.

Click to expand...

Ah, Social Darwinism. Those expounding it tend, of course, to not be on the receiving end of its negative effects...

Folks can complain about rising rents but all these rich yuppies living in the city dump a lot of money into the local economy. This translates to jobs for those in the city and taxes to cover city expenses. I'm not sure SF allows big companies within the city limits anyway, I know they ban big box stores, restaurant chains, even fast food restaurants other than those in place before the ban.

LKK said:

I'm not sure SF allows big companies within the city limits anyway, I know they ban big box stores, restaurant chains, even fast food restaurants other than those in place before the ban.

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Some of the biggest corporations in the US are, or once were, headquartered in San Francisco: Wells Fargo, Bechtel, Levi Strauss, and Pacific Gas and Electric are just some of them. Bank of America used to be headquartered there.

Now within the city and county limits, you likely won't find the space for a spacious campus i.e. Apple or Google.

AndyH said:

Have you seen the movie "Elysium"?
Where will most of the world live once 'the inevitable' spreads?

Click to expand...

Have you seen the movie "Oblivion"?
They were both sci-fi fiction about the "elite" living on space stations, and neither have anything to do with reality.

They were just a ripoff of the cloud minders.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cloud_Minders" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Ah, to be in Stratos, where every year your team goes to the super bowl.
Poor people of SF don't have the eloquent Richard Sherman as their emissary.

garsh said:

AndyH said:

Have you seen the movie "Elysium"?
Where will most of the world live once 'the inevitable' spreads?

Click to expand...

Have you seen the movie "Oblivion"?
They were both sci-fi fiction about the "elite" living on space stations, and neither have anything to do with reality.

Click to expand...

Nothing to do with reality? You sure about that? I'll agree with you if you mean we don't have the uber-wealthy living on space stations, but When was the last time you spent 5 years of your life sifting through the landfill so you could afford to feed your kids?

Not picking a fight here at all - but as has been already pointed out in this thread, the folks in favor of some 'progress' aren't the ones being run out of town to live in a cardboard box in hmmp - some other town. :/

I really can't grasp what these folks mean to be "protesting". Protesting the idea that some folks are living such a LUXURIOUS lifestyle that they get to ride.... wait for it.... a BUS !

Seriously?

Or is it that these people are somehow distorting the real estate market in SF? Well, SF homies, I moved to the area in '96 and I couldn't see spending the money to live in "The City" even THEN. If these young tech workers want to spend all their money to live in overpriced digs, fine with me. Absurd prices for SF real estate is nothing new.

Nothing to add here except that 'Elysium' sucked balls!

What a bizarre situation.

They are protesting people riding a bus to work rather than driving their cars?
The Buses should be electric I think we can all agree.

I lived in SF for 2 years, about 15 ago.

The only way I could BUY a house there would be a lottery win.
I'd like to live on 63rd and park in Manhattan, but the only way I could do it would be in a cardboard box.

I guess the Bus is a symbol to some people of the divide between classes... (but they are just buses)

Perhaps the city should figure out a way to get people with a lower income into the city from less expensive neighborhoods?

They could call it..... BART!

I'm sorry for their discontent..... but their anger seems misplaced.

Oh, back in the old days, before 911, my brother was a big wig with a German banking firm in Manhattan, but refused to live in the city.

Got a beautiful waterfront place Hoboken adjacent.

They ran a water taxi for him and a couple others that got him door to door in 20 minutes.
Guess they should watch out for torpedoes from lower income subs.

Nubo said:

I really can't grasp what these folks mean to be "protesting". Protesting the idea that some folks are living such a LUXURIOUS lifestyle that they get to ride.... wait for it.... a BUS !

Seriously?

Or is it that these people are somehow distorting the real estate market in SF? Well, SF homies, I moved to the area in '96 and I couldn't see spending the money to live in "The City" even THEN. If these young tech workers want to spend all their money to live in overpriced digs, fine with me. Absurd prices for SF real estate is nothing new.

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I think it's a combination of two things:

1. The rich(er) pushing out the poor(er).
2. Mass transit, especially in cities like SF, NYC, Chicago, and Boston is where you find people across a wide socioeconomic spectrum stuck together. By having specialized buses for these rich(er) folk that nobody else can use, it smacks of elitism.

AndyH said:

When was the last time you spent 5 years of your life sifting through the landfill so you could afford to feed your kids?

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When was the last time those Bay Area protesters went sifting through landfills to feed their kids?
Please give up on the hyperbole. It makes your arguments weaker.

garsh said:

AndyH said:

When was the last time you spent 5 years of your life sifting through the landfill so you could afford to feed your kids?

Click to expand...

When was the last time those Bay Area protesters went sifting through landfills to feed their kids?
Please give up on the hyperbole. It makes your arguments weaker.

Click to expand...

Hyperbole? Ok, let's bring it closer to home, shall we?

When was the last time you sent your kids to a West Virginia school that was downhill of a leaking coal sludge pond? When was the last time you or your kids had to live in a sub-standard area with sub-standard infrastructure and schools because the parts of town 'on the other side of the tracks' were unincorporated areas and that's where to whites pushed the non-whites to live? When was the last time you couldn't take a shower or drink your water because the state values a chemical storage facilities 'rights' more highly than the citizens? When was the last time you lived in a cancer zone within 10 miles of the petrochemical industry in Texas and Louisiana? When was the last time you lost your family's business because environmental laws were too stringent and oil spills would certainly never happen?

If you think this is hyperbole, maybe you can tell me why, if coal supplies ~38% of our electricity, and much of that coal comes from W Virginia, and the laws in that state are very favorable to the entire industry, why the workers and people of W Virginia are some of the poorest in the nation.

http://www.wvgazette.com/News/201309190082
http://grist.org/business-technolog...-to-know-about-the-2010-gulf-of-mexico-spill/


Nevermind. RonDawg hit it on the head anyway. All I'll add to this conversation is: If you look at this issue and believe it's misplaced or overblown, thank the deity of your choice or your lucky stars that you're one of the 'haves'.

AndyH said:

All I'll add to this conversation is: If you look at this issue and believe it's misplaced or overblown, thank the deity of your choice or your lucky stars that you're one of the 'haves'.

Click to expand...

There is, without question, no shortage of injustice in the world. Putting environmental hazards in others' backyards, as you point out, is one form of injustice.

However, I fail to see injustice in someone being priced out of a high-end real estate market. There are a great many areas that would be challenging or impossible for my family to afford. I don't have a problem with that, though. There is no shortage of decent places where we can live, and I suspect the same is true for most of those SF protestors.

KillaWhat said:

I guess the Bus is a symbol to some people of the divide between classes... (but they are just buses)

Perhaps the city should figure out a way to get people with a lower income into the city from less expensive neighborhoods?

They could call it..... BART!

Click to expand...

Re: BART, it's a joke for anyone who lives/works south of it where it goes along the Peninsula to the South Bay. The closest BART station (that would make sense for me to take to go to SF) to me is in Millbrae (the terminus on that side of the Bay), ~47 miles northwest of where I live. It's ~36 miles northwest of my work and a few folks at my work do live in SF (about 51 miles NW of work).

My work does provide a free shuttle to/from SF and it's not one of the big companies named. I don't know if it'll be hit by having to pay the city of SF nor where they pick up/drop off (I don't care).

I don't know the details, but from what I'd heard, the reason why BART doesn't come reach San Jose (yet) is that those on the Peninsula had blocked it numerous times, just like they're trying to block the CA high speed train, w/various excuses.

BART will be making it to San Jose, via extending the line from Fremont. That makes for a rather lengthy ride to SF...

abasile said:

AndyH said:

All I'll add to this conversation is: If you look at this issue and believe it's misplaced or overblown, thank the deity of your choice or your lucky stars that you're one of the 'haves'.

Click to expand...

There is, without question, no shortage of injustice in the world. Putting environmental hazards in others' backyards, as you point out, is one form of injustice.

However, I fail to see injustice in someone being priced out of a high-end real estate market. There are a great many areas that would be challenging or impossible for my family to afford. I don't have a problem with that, though. There is no shortage of decent places where we can live, and I suspect the same is true for most of those SF protestors.

Click to expand...

One dramatic example is New Orleans after her last hurricane. Those with means got out of town - whether by yacht, bizjet, or car. The poor, on the other hand, didn't have a way out, and couldn't afford to get to or live in one of the other 'decent places'. That's really the point - when one looks at just how wide the gap has grown in that spot formerly known as 'the middle class' in this country, it starts making more sense.

Another example? Flint, Michigan in the early '80's when GM shut down and moved to Mexico. The workers there were able to afford a fairly middle class lifestyle on their steady income - they'd never be rich and certainly wouldn't be in line for a Tesla, but they're able to have a decent house, a decent car, and spend some time at the beach in the summer. When GM pulled out, the entire support network that built up around the auto industry fell like a house of cards. Some of the folks could afford to leave, but with the real estate market tanking, no jobs within 200 miles (and 200 applicants for each of those), many couldn't afford to move - they were simply stuck - and many never escaped.

As I said before - those of you that have no idea what I'm talking about, or don't understand what the protesters are pushing back against - count your blessings.

Update on this...
CNet: San Francisco approves tech shuttle bus pilot program:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57617536-93/san-francisco-approves-tech-shuttle-bus-pilot-program/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;