Benedict Arnold: Goodbye LEAF, hello Sentra

LeftieBiker said:

I found the Sentra's specs to be good, at least on paper. Does it really feel like a roomy, comfortable car for its size? Does it really get 40MPG on the highway? Would you say that driving a Leaf eventually helped sell you the Sentra?

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Each to his own, but---if you're going to drive an ICE car, why would you buy a Sentra instead of a Prius. I mean, compare dependability, MPG, resale value, etc, etc. My '06 Prius is larger, more economical, more dependable than the 2014 Sentra. At 67K miles, I finally had to replace the tires, driver's-side wiper, and battery. Nothing else. :roll:

Could I have gotten a Prius for $14,800 plus tax and tag? I considered it but was pretty sure it would have been at least 8 grand more. While I can't change my decision I actually would still be interested in hearing about any viable alternatives that were overlooked for future reference.

It's going to be interesting when the first fill up comes to see how far off the average mpg on the Sentra dash is from reality. In stop and go it showed 36mpg and on the highway it got up into the 46-48 range. I'm skeptical, we'll see.

After having an Economy Rental Sentra I will never own one. It may be that Economy Rental only buys strippers but usually they buy mid range cars since they soon get rid of them. A stripper would be hard to sell.

The online guide to who rents what shows that Economy has the bottom of the line Sentra... That said, I have to admit that I would pass on a Sentra too... My neighbor had a middle of the line one and it was a most mediocre car... It was very cheap to operate, got great gas mileage, and was reliable, however... The difference in price between it and the Prius would never have paid back.

GlennD said:

After having an Economy Rental Sentra I will never own one. It may be that Economy Rental only buys strippers but usually they buy mid range cars since they soon get rid of them. A stripper would be hard to sell.

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ILETRIC said:

Now I feel like I have started an exodus.

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I had been eyeing the Kia Soul EV for a while, but now I've pretty much done a 180 on the BMW i3 and look forward to some improvements and bug squishing for the 2016 model year. With my Honda Insight my range needs are pretty modest. I have much more trouble finding apartments that will let me install a charging station.

I'm pretty sick of Nissan, frankly. I cannot stand their corporate culture. Looking back it was a miracle that they produced an electric car at all.

TomT said:

The online guide to who rents what shows that Economy has the bottom of the line Sentra... That said, I have to admit that I would pass on a Sentra too... My neighbor had a middle of the line one and it was a most mediocre car... It was very cheap to operate, got great gas mileage, and was reliable, however... The difference in price between it and the Prius would never have paid back.

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Sentra was redesigned last year, quite a difference from prior models.

I've seen and driven the new one... Still not anything I would personally want to own unless cost was the only consideration... But then, I've never had any desire to own a Prius either...

Sentra was redesigned last year, quite a difference from prior models.[/quote]

^^^ Cost *was* the primary consideration. This wasn't about getting my dream car, or even the best choice in that class, it was about finding the best value in something that isn't horrible, and taking advantage of the extra $1000 and $400 termination waiver on top of that.
Make no mistake, my preferred choice was a model S 85, but life is full of disappointments.

LTLFTcomposite said:

^^^ Cost *was* the primary consideration. This wasn't about getting my dream car, or even the best choice in that class, it was about finding the best value in something that isn't horrible, and taking advantage of the extra $1000 and $400 termination waiver on top of that.
Make no mistake, my preferred choice was a model S 85, but life is full of disappointments.

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My 2012 LEAF is down one battery capacity bar and the loss of range is a pain.

With your car down 3 bars I could understand the need to trade it off.

My hope is to drive my car until the battery warranty expires and then shop around for another EV. I really expect the price of used Teslas to be down over the next year by quite a bit from where they are now. Elon said that 70% of all new orders are for the duel motor AWD version. I also expect that when the Model X gets into production next year that used model S cars will go down again.

I would love to order a new Tesla with all the goodies, but have a hard time spending that much money on a car. My first house cost less than a base model S. Ya I know that was a while ago, but still it seems crazy.

It would be great to compare LEAF 2.0 vs a Tesala Model 3 someday. No way of knowing how long we are going to have to wait for those 2 cars to get to production.

I know many of you have long histories with Nissan, and feel they should have known everything before selling anything, which probably translated into the appearance of them dragging their feet on degradation issues etc. And so I seem to have hit a relative sweet spot (if you don't look at the gas price chart since my 9/15/14 delivery). But I hope that all of you will keep in mind that much of the public still doesn't know that many people can meet their needs on all electric. So I hope you will continue to spread the word and help get people for who the car is very appropriate to seriously consider learning more about it.

Personally, my hope is that next year or two will bring a new battery with 125+mi EPA-rated range. And that it will fit in the footprint of my existing battery. Being in a cool climate, perhaps mine lasts 8-10 years (at which point, any kinks in the new 125mi pack are shaken out), then I swap for the new one, which by that time may even have 200mi range; or a choice between 125mi range for $2,500 or 200mi range for $4,000. Also hoping that some time within the next 5 years that at least two QCs will be available between Des Moines IA, and Minneapolis, MN.

I originally planned to keep my ICE for colder days, or longer trips. But now... I don't even want to drive it on longer trips (and I don't make many), or at all for that matter. I'd rather rent something new. I've only owned the LEAF for 3 months and a week, but have already saved the production, purchase, and pollution of at least 80 gallons of gas (because my 1994 Honda Del Sol was getting around 40MPG, least on the Summer gas premium formulations, when not raining, with fresh oil change, and properly inflated tires... you only seem to remember the BEST mileage achieved, 44MPG!). Even at today's "low" gas prices, that saved me $60/month in fuel, and cost me about $30/mo in electricity. Not to mention the time and temptations of stopping at the "convenience" store 8 or 9 times... because the ICE does NOT have "unlimited range".

kikngas said:

which probably translated into the appearance of them dragging their feet on degradation issues etc

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Please don't try to rewrite history.

Nissan DID drag their feet pretty badly. In my mind (and probably many others) they still are. It took lemon law action in Arizona, independent real world testing (with Tony Williams and many others) of degraded cars, a class action lawsuit, and an "advisory group" to at least get Nissan to:
-Offer a minimal capacity warranty that few outside of the "hot areas" will qualify for.
-Make a replacement pack price available.
-Attempt an honest effort to address degradation via chemistry changes.

I have seen no effort besides a replacement battery (which has no stated increase in capacity from when the car was new) in addressing upgrades for any car. Their idea is you lease the latest and greatest. I wish you the best of luck in getting a 125 mile pack from Nissan in ten years time. Hopefully there will be an aftermarket one available.

For those looking to jump ship but get another, cheaper EV, the Smart ED is now being offered for about $1k down, and $99 a month, presumably excluding the battery rental option.

KJD said:

...I would love to order a new Tesla with all the goodies, but have a hard time spending that much money on a car. My first house cost less than a base model S. Ya I know that was a while ago, but still it seems crazy...

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Now that you mention it, my first house was also less expensive than a base Model S. In San Diego, of all places...

kubel said:

Nissan will have to prove to me that their batteries don't suck.

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+1

I hope to buy a second Leaf. But "reportedly" improved battery chemistry, "expected" degradation to 80% in 5 years and 70% in 10 years just won't cut it any more. I couldn't seriously consider another Nissan without either lots of real world independent data showing good durability of the new batteries, or an iron clad pro rata warranty backing up claims like 80% in 5 years.

+100!

That is but one of the reasons why I will not be replacing my Leaf with another come early next year...

walterbays said:

I hoped to buy a second Leaf. But "reportedly" improved battery chemistry, "expected" degradation to 80% in 5 years and 70% in 10 years just won't cut it any more. I couldn't seriously consider another Nissan without either lots of real world independent data showing good durability of the new batteries, or an iron clad pro rata warranty backing up claims like 80% in 5 years.

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+1 here too...either a longer-lived battery with a pro-rated warranty, or a significantly longer-range battery at the same price point (also with a pro-rated warranty).

But since I purchased, I'll likely end up buying a Lizard battery and hoping that it truly is better. Because aside from the range (and it's impact on driving speed), I really do like my LEAF!

walterbays said:

I hope to buy a second Leaf. But "reportedly" improved battery chemistry, "expected" degradation to 80% in 5 years and 70% in 10 years just won't cut it any more. I couldn't seriously consider another Nissan without either lots of real world independent data showing good durability of the new batteries, or an iron clad pro rata warranty backing up claims like 80% in 5 years.

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One month in, 1000 miles on the Sentra including some holiday road trips that would have otherwise have had to have been taken in the volt. $60 in gas but saved $30 in electric. At this rate it will take two years just to offset the sales tax differential on what they would have dinged me on the $11k tax credit and Nissan rebate.

Do you have an average MPG for the Sentra?

Had to drive my 2009 Altima yesterday on a 170 mile round trip to a funeral.
Not a bad ICE.
But I cannot imagine having to drive a Sentara instead of my 2011 LEAF for my routine local use.
But at least you have the Volt.

Maybe the new Volt will be a bit bigger and a reasonable replacement for my Altima :?:

LeftieBiker said:

Do you have an average MPG for the Sentra?

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Appears to be 38.7
My insurance dropped $358/yr too.
I do prefer driving the Volt though although the Sentra isn't cramped like the volt, and I agree the LEAF was nicer to drive.