gascant
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Re: Nissan Eng. Team Visit: Reservations Closed

Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:49 am

I'm not sure that anyone has a complete set of notes, so keep asking questions and we will answer them here. At a high level, Nissan was interested in getting focused feedback on the SOC/DTE gauges, portable EVSE, and LEAF IT systems. Some charging infrastructure was discussed (oakwcj's post above). We didn't get into things that were obvious (e.g., cloth armrests). They did give us a survey to fill out (on the above topics plus driving and charging habits), and in return we each received a little model LEAF.
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astrorob
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Re: Nissan Eng. Team Visit: Reservations Closed

Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:51 am

here are a few pictures, nothing special...
ImageImage
ImageImage

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evnow
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Re: Nissan Eng. Team Visit: Reservations Closed

Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:05 am

So, how does the DTE meter work now ?
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Re: Nissan Eng. Team Visit: Reservations Closed

Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:19 am

did they tell us how to make the heater work when NOT using pre-heat?
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oakwcj
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Re: Nissan Eng. Team Visit: Reservations Closed

Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:44 am

evnow wrote:So, how does the DTE meter work now ?


Poorly. :lol:

Kadota-san did respond to the discussion, but I'm not sure precisely what he said, so I won't try to characterize it, except that he acknowledged how difficult it is to measure SOC under load and how many variables there are in predicting future miles per kWh. He talked about mysterious shifts in SOC. Perhaps Gascant or one of the other organizers will want to be more specific.
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TonyWilliams
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GuessOmeter / DTE

Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:52 pm

One very important point made on the DTE / GuessOmeter was that an accurate SOC of the 96 measured cell pairs (192 total cells) could only be made at start up. This is where the LEAF measures the Open Circuit Voltage (OCV).

This cannot be accurately measured with a load, where only an estimate can be derived from voltage and amps. Also, just after charging and discharging, OCV cannot be measured because of chemical reaction in the battery.

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TonyWilliams
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Re: Nissan Eng. Team Visit: Reservations Closed

Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:54 pm

Let me add that I think we have found out what a Gid is; it is the estimate of OCV by conversion from measured amps and volts.

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linkim
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Re: Nissan Eng. Team Visit: Reservations Closed

Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:58 pm

I think the meeting was well described in the posts by gascant, TEG, oakwcj and cwerdna (and probably others to come). By my tally there were 19 Nissan visitors (including 2 PR members from LA). We had a lot more information than we could cover in the allotted time, so some upgrades/mods and "suggested improvements" were not discussed at all. However, Nissan has all the information we prepared for the meeting, including a "suggested improvements" spreadsheet based on the information gathered from the MNL forum on a post by Phil. We also had other data that was presented. We also provided Nissan with a powerpoint presentation on the upgrades/mods that was used as an appendix, because Nissan requested specific topics (EVSE, SOC, IT) for discussion. Also, one of our members (turbo3) had the presentations translated into Japanese for the visitors) and provided to them as hard copies In addition, I have met several times with the local Nissan representative to discuss the information that was not presented.

Obviously, we could not address all attendees questions/concerns at the meeting, but we tried our best. Whether the information is proprietary or not, I think the spontaneous/simultaneous comments from the audience were not conducive to getting a response from Nissan Japan. They need time to digest/understand the comments, especially when they come from several directions and rapidly.

We originally tried to restrict the discussion because of the limited time, and allow Nissan sufficient time for their questions. However, we got little response from the visitors from Japan on technical issues. Kadota-san did provide more information on the battery and other tests (water, lightning), which was already mentioned. One thing Nissan should have noticed is that there is never a dull moment at a BayLEAF meeting, and if they want comments/suggestions/answers, our meetings are the place to be.

It should also be mentioned that the Electric Automotive Association presented Kadota-san (Nissan Japan) and Mark Perry (Nissan NA) with awards for the LEAF. Also, one of our local LEAF owners generously provided the Nissan Japan visitors a gift from California that will require them to check their luggage at the airport (assuming it is not gone before they leave).

Great meeting and thank you all for coming to show your enthusiasm for the LEAF.

Kim
Last edited by linkim on Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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astrorob
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Re: Nissan Eng. Team Visit: Reservations Closed

Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:59 pm

oakwcj wrote:
evnow wrote:So, how does the DTE meter work now ?


Poorly. :lol:

Kadota-san did respond to the discussion, but I'm not sure precisely what he said, so I won't try to characterize it, except that he acknowledged how difficult it is to measure SOC under load and how many variables there are in predicting future miles per kWh. He talked about mysterious shifts in SOC. Perhaps Gascant or one of the other organizers will want to be more specific.



i think what he was trying to say is that the only time you can measure the SOC precisely is at the time you boot the car, that is, when there's no load on the battery. at any point after there is a significant load on the battery, any SoC measurement is just an estimate, presumably based on how much current has left and entered the battery (batteries).

furthermore since the battery is composed of many smaller batteries, and they don't necessarily monitor all of them, there's a source of error there.

it seems that even their estimate can cause "mysterious" jumps in the SoC and they want to shield the user from that confusion.

overall i think he was trying to convey the idea that there's no "true" SoC and any direct report of the SoC to the user will be just as much an estimate as the DTE currently is. of course reporting the SoC would remove the extra component of the recent driving history from the computation and perhaps be a little more clear to the driver.

TNleaf
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Re: GuessOmeter / DTE

Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:01 pm

TonyWilliams wrote:One very important point made on the DTE / GuessOmeter was that an accurate SOC of the 96 measured cell pairs (192 total cells) could only be made at start up. This is where the LEAF measures the Open Circuit Voltage (OCV).

This cannot be accurately measured with a load, where only an estimate can be derived from voltage and amps. Also, just after charging and discharging, OCV cannot be measured because of chemical reaction in the battery.


This is good stuff. Thank you for sharing! Totally wishing I would have made plans to attend!
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