AndyH
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Re: I Want my (fast) DC!

Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:56 pm

garygid wrote:If everybody contributed, each year, the cost of one meal eaten out, we would have quite a bit to fund growing the L3 network over the next 20 years.

You've already contributed more than enough - Fear not!

From Oil Change International - The thank you letter you didn't receive last year:
Dear average American taxpayer,
As 2010 comes to a close, your friends in the oil industry would like to acknowledge your ongoing generosity and support.

Last year, in addition to the roughly $2300 you spent on gasoline, you gave us at least $10 billion in subsidies. You have our assurances that this money will be used to continue to buy your government, violate human rights, pollute your backyard and the whole planet, and greenwash our image. We're sorry about that little issue with the Gulf of Mexico, but we'd like you to believe its all gone now, and so we'll spend several tens of millions more on an advertising campaign to reassure you.

Your contributions to the oil industry are generously matched by, well, no one. You give us the most. Thanks .

Over the coming year we'll keep buying your democracy, you keep giving us billions, and it'll all be good.

Sincerely,
Big Oil


garygid wrote:Keep in mind that $400,000 for installing a single L3 station is ... WAY high.
Where in the world did this number come from?! Even the expensive units are only $50K plus installation - and the Nissan units are supposed to be closer to $15-ish thousand. Which side are you on here? ;)

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garygid
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Re: I Want my (fast) DC!

Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:11 am

Somebody mentioned over $200 million for under 400 L3 stations, as I recall (perhaps incorrectly). I might be deluded. :lol:

Of course, the most expensive part of most charging stations is the space (possibly land), permits, environmental impact studies, entry and exit plans, traffic impact, the construction, new power service, and finally the install, NOT the cost of the QC itself.
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DaveinOlyWA
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Re: I Want my (fast) DC!

Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:09 pm

Of course that is possible but at the same time existing sites will be ultilized. Park and ride upgrades. Existing parking lots etc where industrial power would not be a major expense.

In the $150,000 scenario the site development is expected tone the bulk of the cost. The charging unit itself is not that much.

So we may see one unit costing $150,000 but a second unit in the same location costing $15,000 more.
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smkettner
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Re: I Want my (fast) DC!

Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:12 pm

AndyH wrote:
garygid wrote:Keep in mind that $400,000 for installing a single L3 station is ... WAY high.
Where in the world did this number come from?! Even the expensive units are only $50K plus installation - and the Nissan units are supposed to be closer to $15-ish thousand. Which side are you on here? ;)

Might include pulling three phase power to remote areas.
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edatoakrun
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Re: I Want my (fast) DC!

Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:43 am

Not a bad idea for the USA.

"Japan’s Sumitomo, Nissan Motor and NEC are teaming up to develop a membership-based electric vehicle (EV) charging service in Japan. The firms will carry out a joint study to install standard and quick charging stations in key locations, including for residents of apartment buildings and for monthly parking users. NEC will provide various systems which use cloud computing for membership management, including quick charging services, member authentication and payment processing."

http://cleantech.strategyeye.com/articl ... g_service/
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edatoakrun
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Re: I Want my (fast) DC!

Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:56 am

The NYT, in a fair LEAF review yesterday, concluded:

"Will the E.V. genus blossom and proliferate as a result of the Leaf’s introduction?

No single model from any automaker will answer that question, of course. If anything, the Leaf demonstrates how much the widespread acceptance of vehicles that produce zero tailpipe emissions will depend on external factors like a charging infrastructure."

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/23/autom ... nted=1&hpw
no condition is permanent

rmay635703
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Re: I Want my (fast) DC!

Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:26 pm

Jimmydreams wrote:
edatoakrun wrote:"L3 is being worked in a number of areas - and there are already L3 chargers in operation."

How many in the USA? (actually less now than a few years ago)

Can Bay area LEAF owners conveniently drive to Reno/Tahoe?

Can SoCal owners recharge on the the way to Las Vegas?

"Getting my L2 EVSE was enough of a nightmare that I can easily understand Nissan leaving L3 chargers to individual cities or entities that can make it work."

And it was a "nightmare" of very limited benefit, useful only to yourself.

A great virtue of EV's is the utility of being able to charge at home, whether you choose level 1 or 2 home charging.

But the greatest drawback of EV's will always be limited range, making the PUBLIC infrastructure crucial.


My point about the nightmare of my L2 was to illustrate that the nightmare must be exponentially worse for L3 systems, public or private.


Was the nightmare caused by the local government requiring overpriced "Special" licensed individuals, inspectors and other ideots who know nothing about your charger to approve it?

A charger should not require much knowledge beyond a basic electrician, assuming of coarse your homes service is large enough to feed the charger. Even very old homes usually have 240/100 service

I think the nightmare would go away if the fed would ban and limit the ability of localities on this issue directly because there are local ordinances that outright ban having a primary electric vehicle charger on premises by virtue of making the requirements impossible to meet. I often have to wonder what alterior motives go on within town boards and housing comissions.

Sometimes I wonder if the board smokes crack all day and makes writes down what ever comes into their head as law. :(

Also I've found some rather terrible hurtfull regulations go away if enough people throw a fit and threaten the board, but you need at least 70 other angry people to make problems suddenly go away. Like the you can't store anything under your deck or the you can't have a trailer on the property (anywhere) BS in the middle of the woods up here in WI.

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Jimmydreams
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Re: I Want my (fast) DC!

Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:43 pm

rmay635703 wrote:[Was the nightmare caused by the local government requiring overpriced "Special" licensed individuals, inspectors and other ideots who know nothing about your charger to approve it?



Yes. Apparently, the city I live in won't approve a simple electrical permit unless they have ridiculous levels of supporting docs. It's CYA on steroids. :evil:
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rmay635703
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Re: I Want my (fast) DC!

Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:15 pm

Jimmydreams wrote:
rmay635703 wrote:[Was the nightmare caused by the local government requiring overpriced "Special" licensed individuals, inspectors and other ideots who know nothing about your charger to approve it?



Yes. Apparently, the city I live in won't approve a simple electrical permit unless they have ridiculous levels of supporting docs. It's CYA on steroids. :evil:


I guess they apparently expect and want everyone to break the law then.

There was at one time legislation to require fair and straightforeward processes and procedures at the local level, (wonder where that went) I'm not sure where you can go but I have a feeling they need to get sued or have a large # of individuals strongly state their oppinion repeatedly over months about their permit process.

You would be amazed what a large angry group can accomplish, around here if it isn't angry they don't seem to care or listen.

smkettner
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Re: I Want my (fast) DC!

Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:07 pm

Jimmydreams wrote:
rmay635703 wrote:[Was the nightmare caused by the local government requiring overpriced "Special" licensed individuals, inspectors and other ideots who know nothing about your charger to approve it?



Yes. Apparently, the city I live in won't approve a simple electrical permit unless they have ridiculous levels of supporting docs. It's CYA on steroids. :evil:

That is where a plug in evse works. Can't be a big deal to just install an outlet. Tell them it is for a welder if you must.

I am not sure why so many get their jumpers in a bunch to plug in an silly appliance.
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