GRA
Posts: 8648
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Official Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV SUV thread

Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:57 pm

edatoakrun wrote:
GRA wrote:
edatoakrun wrote:IIRC the MY '18 already has two 120 volt outlets, which I assume will be carried over to the '19 MY.

Not even close to the same effect as having access to all the energy stored in the both the pack and the gas tank, at a high kWh rate, through a CHAdeMO port.

...while it's a nice to have option, it's not critical.

It is critical, for the millions of PG&E customers who got the same Email I did last week, and realize how dangerous, expensive, and unreliable the grid has become, and understand the asphalt grid is a superior method of connecting to supplemental electricity supplies. <snip>
Or they could just take all the emergency precautions that government agencies and utilities have been warning them to take for decades now. You know, light (candles/lanterns and/or portable generator), cooking (portable stove and fuel), shelter, emergency food/water and purification, first aid kits, battery/solar/crank-powered radio etc., and be ready to hop in their car and evacuate if necessary. Of course, setting your house up to be capable of functioning off-grid is also a good idea, but if it's destroyed or you have to vamoose you need to be prepared for that. I've been through the semi-big one (Loma Prieta) as well as the Oakland Hills firestorm, the last when I was designing and selling off-grid systems. We were fine for power when everyone else lacked it, but we were also just outside the evacuation zone which could have been expanded at any time. So again, CHAdeMo V2H is a nice to have, but not critical. In a major emergency you don't need to be able to operate business as usual, but can power down and concentrate on the essentials, and a 2kW inverter is generally more than enough to handle that, barring an invalid who is dependent on medical equipment (ventilator etc.) - often you can get by with a lot less. As I'm a backpacker, my emergency kit is also my backpacking gear, plus the water and food I have stashed here.

Now, some individuals may need more - I don't know how deep your well is or what flow rate you require (and I'm long out of that business in any case), although if you really want to be emergency prepped you should build a tank high enough above your place that it can gravity feed and you aren't dependent on having power, which may or may not be possible for you. Not that that will guarantee you will be able to save your place. In short, you've got lots of options, and having a CHAdeMO-equipped car for V2H is only one of them. If you really need it, fine, but most people don't.

As for not being able to charge your LEAF, that's just one reason why BEVs, especially short-range ones, suck in emergencies, and why emergency vehicles should all be either plug-in hybrids or conventional. Anyone who's concerned about having to evacuate should never be dependent on a BEV and should have another vehicle, at least until you can afford a much longer-ranged BEV and always maintain a sufficient emergency reserve to evacuate.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

edatoakrun
Posts: 5218
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: Official Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV SUV thread

Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:52 pm

GRA wrote:
edatoakrun wrote:
GRA wrote:...while it's a nice to have option, it's not critical.

It is critical, for the millions of PG&E customers who got the same Email I did last week, and realize how dangerous, expensive, and unreliable the grid has become, and understand the asphalt grid is a superior method of connecting to supplemental electricity supplies. <snip>
Or they could just take all the emergency precautions that government agencies and utilities have been warning them to take for decades now...

Are you really so obtuse?

I am not talking about emergency back-up power.

I am pointing out that the grid is a today, largely a relic of the obsolete technology that once required powerlines to deliver electricity economically.

Next time you drive through any forested area, take a look at all the absurdly hazardous and expensive power lines that would never be installed today, now that we have inexpensive PV and batteries, and the BEVs, PHEVs and BEVxs needed to replace the energy transport function of power lines.

Eventually, even the dunderheads at PG&E and the CPUC will realize how idiotic it is to continue to subsidize their obsolete technology, with ever-more money and lives.
no condition is permanent

GRA
Posts: 8648
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Official Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV SUV thread

Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:44 pm

edatoakrun wrote:
GRA wrote:
edatoakrun wrote:It is critical, for the millions of PG&E customers who got the same Email I did last week, and realize how dangerous, expensive, and unreliable the grid has become, and understand the asphalt grid is a superior method of connecting to supplemental electricity supplies. <snip>
Or they could just take all the emergency precautions that government agencies and utilities have been warning them to take for decades now...

Are you really so obtuse?

I am not talking about emergency back-up power.

I am pointing out that the grid is a today, largely a relic of the obsolete technology that once required powerlines to deliver electricity economically.

Next time you drive through any forested area, take a look at all the absurdly hazardous and expensive power lines that would never be installed today, now that we have inexpensive PV and batteries, and the BEVs, PHEVs and BEVxs needed to replace the energy transport function of power lines.

Eventually, even the dunderheads at PG&E and the CPUC will realize how idiotic it is to continue to subsidize their obsolete technology, with ever-more money and lives.

Of course the aging grid is stressed and out of date; glad you noticed, but you're late to the party. I was supplying full off-grid systems a quarter century ago, to people who had experienced prolonged grid outages (a lot of them in the Santa Cruz mountains and up the north coast, after Loma Prieta) and were no longer willing to trust it. Actually, many of them experienced a couple of longish grid outages a year even without major natural disasters, and treated the grid as useful but not to be depended on. Microgrids, increased interties and hardening will all be necessary if a central grid is to survive. All of that is being undertaken, late and too slowly as is usually the case when large amounts of money are involved. the alternative is for nothing but micro-grids and individual loads with zero connections and lots of rarely used backup, which is still far more expensive.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

Return to “Other Electric Cars & Plug-In Hybrids”