jjeff
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Re: Official Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV SUV thread

Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:29 am

AndyH, I appreciate your real world postings :)
I agree it's easy to get caught up in numbers and not see the forest for the trees. Just like the Volt that initially had quite mediocre ICE MPG numbers, quite a few real world people were getting 1000+ MPG average by plugging whenever they could.
Personally I'd have liked something more like the new Prius Prime for HWY MPG but then again I know one will not get something like that in a high profile vehicle SUV like an Outlander, and as the article said, as much as other mfgs. talk about coming out with a PHEV or even BEV SUV, as of yet Mitsubishi is the only one that has done so in N. America.
AFA the Mitsubishi name and auto press, they basically get no respect. Been this way for years and to whether you agree is up to you to decide. I don't see a ton of Mitsubishi's around hear, some but nothing like other brands. I do see many up in Canada where I vacation in the summer and people really seem to like them, maybe Canadians value the dollar more than brand of car they drive :idea:
I'd have no problem with a Mitsubishi, heck I was seriously looking at one before I got my 1st Leaf quite a few years ago. Very good HWY and CTY mileage from it's anemic(but totally adequate IMO) 3 cylinder engine, great price, adequate room for a family around town, etc. but in the end ended up wanting to go totally electric. If the Outlander PHEV had been available in N. America I sure would have seriously looked at it, at this point I'm probably fine with my Leafs and old(but still reliable) Prius for long trips and borrowing a relative's 24 MPG :( SUV for occasional camping trips, which really makes me appreciate the Leaf or Prius :lol:
I realize not everyone has an opportunity to borrow such a vehicle in which case, if they were going to own just one vehicle something like the Outlander, would be a decent choice for an all in one vehicle. Not great in any one department, but probably cheaper than owning 2 or even 3 vehicles.
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AndyH
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Re: Official Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV SUV thread

Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:54 pm

jjeff wrote:AndyH, I appreciate your real world postings :)

Glad to help!
jjeff wrote:...if they were going to own just one vehicle something like the Outlander, would be a decent choice for an all in one vehicle. Not great in any one department, but probably cheaper than owning 2 or even 3 vehicles.

Definitely cheaper than owning more vehicles. 8-)

Folks are using the EVBattMon app as well as PHEVWatchDog to get cell-level data. Here's an example from the 69 vehicles in the PHEV WatchDog beta program (one of those is mine). Yes, most of those are in Europe where speed limits are lower. I think you nailed it, though - it's very much like the difference between the 'detached number crunchers working from incomplete data' and 'real world' info we saw when the Volt launched...and the LEAF...and probably the 1969 Dodge Ch@rger. 'Cause car people. :lol:

(Hang on...we can attach images on the MyOutlander forum but not here...)

Image

(This beta version with data uploads to the website has only been on the streets since mid-winter. Since most of the cars are reporting from Europe, and since it's been a stupid cold winter there, I expect the numbers to improve once they get a full year's worth of data logged.)
"The stupid become extinct."-Bill Mollison
2018 Outlander PHEV
2015 smart Electric Drive (lease ended Feb, 2018)
OpenEVSE Plus DIY

AndyH
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Re: Official Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV SUV thread

Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:04 pm

Went for a drive today. 158 miles traveled round trip. Nearly all highway - less than 5 miles were on 45 mph secondary roads. Eco mode on, AC on, cruise control set on 65. I drove 10 miles in EV mode, then selected 'charge hold' until I got to within 10 miles of the destination and finished the drive on the battery. MPG when I arrived was 42.9. After shopping, I drove 5 miles down the road and got 20 minutes of CHAdeMO goodness - added 6.3 Ah. Finished the drive home using the charge hold until I was 12 miles out, then switched to EV mode to arrive with no battery. Round trip fuel economy was 44.6 MPG.

Guy - does that get closer to your thoughts on driving into town to use the charge once in the city limit? Or do you have other thoughts in mind?

Also, since I think I'm missing you in other areas as well, what sort of capability or upgrades do you think you or other Americans would want in order to make the car more useful to them?
"The stupid become extinct."-Bill Mollison
2018 Outlander PHEV
2015 smart Electric Drive (lease ended Feb, 2018)
OpenEVSE Plus DIY

GRA
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Re: Official Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV SUV thread

Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:45 pm

Via IEVS:
Mitsubishi Updates 2019 Outlander PHEV With More Of Everything
https://insideevs.com/mitsubishi-update-2019-outlander-phev-with-more-of-everything/

A bit more detail on updates previously announced, including improvements to the engine: More power/torque, EV top speed up from 78 to 84 mph, uses Otto/Atkinson cycle as required for better power/more efficiency, bigger battery, changes to steering feel and response, shocks altered to improve ride, new 'Sport' mode, etc. Only talks about UK introduction in September, no info on when North America might see it.
Last edited by GRA on Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

pkulak
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Re: Official Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV SUV thread

Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:01 pm

GRA wrote:Via IEVS:
Mitsubishi Updates 2019 Outlander PHEV With More Of Everything
https://insideevs.com/mitsubishi-update-2019-outlander-phev-with-more-of-everything/

A bit more detail on updates previously announced, including improvements tot ehengine More power/torque, EV top speed up from 78 to 84 mph, uses Otto/Atkinson cycle as required for better power/more efficiency, bigger battery, changes to steering feel and response, shocks altered to improve ride, new 'Sport' mode, etc. Only talks about UK introduction in September, no info on when North America might see it.


Not too bad. I just bought a Kia Niro PHEV, and it's pretty much everything I want in a vehicle, but if AWD and some proper off-roading ability was anywhere in my priorities, I'd be taking a look at this 2019... when it comes to NA in 5 years. :lol:

edatoakrun
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Re: Official Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV SUV thread

Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:37 pm

Expect a significant increase in the USA MPGe and gas-only highway MPG ratings after EPA test results are available:

...Unsurprisingly, the powertrain received the most extensive engineering focus with the development of a new “4B12” 2.4-litre petrol engine, which uses its MIVEC variable-valve timing system to seamlessly switch between Otto and Atkinson combustion cycles depending on the driving situation. The larger capacity means the engine produces more power (135hp vs 121hp) and more torque across a wider rev range (211Nm vs 190Nm) when operating in the familiar Otto cycle mode, which is ideal for moderate-to-high load situations such as inclines and rapid acceleration. At the same time, the petrol engine also manages to be more efficient than before because it can switch to the Atkinson cycle - where the inlet valve remains open for longer, effectively reducing the compression stroke, thereby decreasing its capacity and consequently burning less fuel – under light load conditions such as motorway cruising...

...the Outlander PHEV’s pure EV range is more than enough for the average daily UK commute: An impressive 28 miles according to the new, more stringent real-world WLTP tests. The WLTP average fuel economy figure for the new Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV is 141mpg ...

And it remains the only PHEV sold in the USA with a CHAdeMO port, for both DC charging, AND:

...A fully-fuelled/charged Outlander PHEV has sufficient energy capacity to power a regular household for up to 10 days.

One of the attractions of MMC’s PHEV technology is that it allows drivers to use their batteries to supply DC electricity to their home, their community and the power grid. This capability opens the door to a new era of more efficient energy management.

The Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV is already smart grid compatible and Mitsubishi Motors anticipates the gradual introduction of vehicle to home (V2H) schemes over the coming years and are already involved in demonstrator programs in various countries...

http://www.mitsubishi-media.co.uk/release/1410/
no condition is permanent

GRA
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Re: Official Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV SUV thread

Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:50 pm

edatoakrun wrote:Expect a significant increase in the USA MPGe and gas-only highway MPG ratings after EPA test results are available: <snip>

Hwy MPG is certainly the area that many of us thought fell most short of where it should be, along with a weak engine that would require much use of the battery to maintain traffic flow speed when ascending long freeway climbs (I-80 to Tahoe, I-70 from Denver etc.). I have my doubts that they'll get it up to 35 MPG, but 30+ may be doable - it would be nice if they could match the RAV4 HEV's 32 MPG. And that would also help the somewhat anemic gas-only range, as the vehicle only has a 11.3 gal. tank, and 300 miles plus a reserve is generally what people (in this country, anyway) consider a minimum.

edatoakrun wrote:...the Outlander PHEV’s pure EV range is more than enough for the average daily UK commute: An impressive 28 miles according to the new, more stringent real-world WLTP tests. The WLTP average fuel economy figure for the new Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV is 141mpg ...
And it remains the only PHEV sold in the USA with a CHAdeMO port, for both DC charging, AND:

...A fully-fuelled/charged Outlander PHEV has sufficient energy capacity to power a regular household for up to 10 days.

One of the attractions of MMC’s PHEV technology is that it allows drivers to use their batteries to supply DC electricity to their home, their community and the power grid. This capability opens the door to a new era of more efficient energy management.

The Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV is already smart grid compatible and Mitsubishi Motors anticipates the gradual introduction of vehicle to home (V2H) schemes over the coming years and are already involved in demonstrator programs in various countries...

http://www.mitsubishi-media.co.uk/release/1410/

I consider this last of minimal importance for most, as you can get the same effect just by including an inverter of sufficient power to run a refrigerator and a few efficient lights, which some of Mitsubishi's competitors have done. As to CHAdeMO for the traction battery, I continue to believe that it's unnecessary in a PHEV with a battery this small - anyone in a hurry will gas and go. Boosting the L2 charger from 30 to 40A would be more useful.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

edatoakrun
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Re: Official Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV SUV thread

Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:11 pm

GRA wrote:I consider this last of minimal importance for most, as you can get the same effect just by including an inverter of sufficient power to run a refrigerator and a few efficient lights, which some of Mitsubishi's competitors have done...

IIRC the MY '18 already has two 120 volt outlets, which I assume will be carried over to the '19 MY.

Not even close to the same effect as having access to all the energy stored in the both the pack and the gas tank, at a high kWh rate, through a CHAdeMO port.
no condition is permanent

GRA
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Re: Official Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV SUV thread

Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:19 pm

edatoakrun wrote:
GRA wrote:I consider this last of minimal importance for most, as you can get the same effect just by including an inverter of sufficient power to run a refrigerator and a few efficient lights, which some of Mitsubishi's competitors have done...

IIRC the MY '18 already has two 120 volt outlets, which I assume will be carried over to the '19 MY.

Not even close to the same effect as having access to all the energy stored in the both the pack and the gas tank, at a high kWh rate, through a CHAdeMO port.

That may be of importance to people trying to wait out the extended aftermath of a natural disaster in the prolifigate style they're accustomed to, and It may be a selling point for some in earthquake or hurricane-prone locations like Japan, California and coastal/island areas. But for the typical short-term off-grid use you've already reduced your loads to a minimum (as noted, refrigeration and minimum lights tend to be the critical items, plus maybe phone charging which is a minimal load), and for a major natural disaster it's generally a far better use of the gas in your tank to evacuate. So, while it's a nice to have option, it's not critical.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

edatoakrun
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Re: Official Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV SUV thread

Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:08 am

GRA wrote:
edatoakrun wrote:
GRA wrote:I consider this last of minimal importance for most, as you can get the same effect just by including an inverter of sufficient power to run a refrigerator and a few efficient lights, which some of Mitsubishi's competitors have done...

IIRC the MY '18 already has two 120 volt outlets, which I assume will be carried over to the '19 MY.

Not even close to the same effect as having access to all the energy stored in the both the pack and the gas tank, at a high kWh rate, through a CHAdeMO port.

...while it's a nice to have option, it's not critical.

It is critical, for the millions of PG&E customers who got the same Email I did last week, and realize how dangerous, expensive, and unreliable the grid has become, and understand the asphalt grid is a superior method of connecting to supplemental electricity supplies.

Do we NEED TO dismantle the grid in the rural west?

edatoakrun wrote:PG&E has been suggesting it wil begin cutting off power to rural customers during high-wind events for some time now, and I got the Email every rural resident who depends for their power supply, and their pumped water supply has been dreading:

Dear Valued Customer:

As part of our commitment to safety, we are reaching out to our customers, like you, who live in or near high wildfire-threat areas. We want to keep you and your family informed and updated of additional precautionary steps that we are taking to address the growing threat of extreme weather and wildfires, such as possible power outages. Please visit pge.com/mywildfirealerts today to update your contact information.

Taking action to keep you and your family safe
To help ensure the safety of our customers and communities we are privileged to serve, we are taking action with our Community Wildfire Safety Program. For your safety, it may be necessary for us to temporarily turn off electricity to your neighborhood or community when extreme fire danger conditions occur. We know how much you rely on reliable electric service and would only consider temporarily turning off power in the interest of safety, and as a last resort. If we need to turn off your power, we will attempt to contact you in advance to ensure you have enough time to prepare. We will also provide updates until power is restored.

What to expect if power is turned off
In the event we need to turn off your power for safety reasons, here is what you can expect:

When and where possible, early warning notification so you can prepare. Extreme weather threats can change quickly. Please make sure to update your contact information by visiting pge.com/mywildfirealerts. We will use this information to alert you via automated calls, texts, and emails.
Additional updates through social media, local news, radio, and the pge.com website.
Coordination with your local authorities to provide updated outage information.
Taking steps to prepare
We know you may have questions about how to best prepare for the threat of wildfires and the possibility that power may be turned off. To learn whether your home is in or near a high wildfire-threat area on the California Public Utilities Commission (CPUC) fire map, visit cpuc.ca.gov/FireThreatMaps. All customers living in these high-risk areas should prepare an emergency plan. For more information on how to keep you and your family emergency-ready and safe during an outage, please visit pge.com/wildfiresafety. You can also reach us by email at wildfiresafety@pge.com.

Sincerely,

PG&E Wildfire Safety Team

It's going to be a great feeling the first time I return home later this Summer with my pack close to the VLB, and find that PG&E has shut off the power, both to my well to fight a potential fire, and also to my EVSE to recharge my LEAF to prepare for an emergency exit.

As expected, most of last fall's fires, and those with the high death counts, have now been officially blamed on PG&E:

PG&E to blame for more wine country fires, Cal Fire says

Cal Fire on Friday blamed PG&E for 12 more of the fires that overwhelmed Northern California's wine country last October, citing the utility's power lines and poles and increasing PG&E's potential financial peril over the deadly fires.

The report came two weeks after Pacific Gas & Electric Co., which is lobbying state lawmakers for relief from financial responsibility for the fires, was blamed by the California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection for three other fires last October in Nevada and Butte counties.

However, Cal Fire's investigators still haven't weighed in on the deadliest of the wine country wildfires, the Tubbs Fire, which started in Calistoga and swept into Santa Rosa. The Tubbs Fire destroyed more than 5,000 homes and other buildings and killed 24 people, accounting for more than half of the 44 people killed in last October's fires.

Cal Fire has determined that most of the fires were caused by tree limbs brushing up against PG&E power lines. PG&E, however, has declined to acknowledge that it's been at fault...

http://www.sacbee.com/latest-news/article212856769.html

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