scottf200
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Re: Tesla Model X

Sat Mar 31, 2018 6:49 am

RegGuheert wrote:Autopilot drove this vehicle directly into a concrete divider barrier, killing the driver.


The driver determined on their own to enable the driver assistance feature ** moments ** before the crash and set the following distance to 1 (out of 7).

10s of 1000s of drivers make choices every single day that cause them to get into an accident. Many 1000s every day.
100K EV miles and 80% EV usage
Volt = 53+ mile BEV up to 100 MPH, then 40 MPG hybrid with a 9 gal gas tank
'17 Tesla Model X 100D 'used'| RIP '16 P90DL Sig | 2011 Volt kid2 | 2016 for wife | 2012 kid1

scottf200
Posts: 1781
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:21 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2011
Location: In my Volt VIN 01234 <actual>
Contact: Website

Re: Tesla Model X

Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:42 am

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-confirm ... tal-crash/

Local news agency ABC7 News was able to get in touch with the driver of the vehicle that collided with the crash cushion 11 days before the Tesla accident. According to the news agency, the previous crash involved James Barboza, who was driving a 2010 Toyota Prius at 70 mph. Barboza walked away from the crash with lacerations on his face and complaints of pain all over his body. The Toyota Prius driver was eventually arrested for driving under the influence.

In a statement to ABC7, Steven Lawrence — a lawyer who specializes in highway safety — stated that the crash cushion, which could have saved the Model X driver’s life, should have been repaired long before the accident. According to Lawrence, 11 days is far too long to fix a crash cushion, especially in areas where the Model X accident took place.

“Some states have as short as a 3-day repair time for high traffic locations. And if you look at the material in California, this thing should have been repaired within a week. Again, there are a lot of questions about what happened and what went wrong, but it should have been repaired in under 11 days.” Lawrence said.
100K EV miles and 80% EV usage
Volt = 53+ mile BEV up to 100 MPH, then 40 MPG hybrid with a 9 gal gas tank
'17 Tesla Model X 100D 'used'| RIP '16 P90DL Sig | 2011 Volt kid2 | 2016 for wife | 2012 kid1

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13081
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Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
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Re: Tesla Model X

Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:13 am

An accident within 7 days would have had someone crying the barrier needed to be replaced in 3 days...
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 8743 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 111.39 Ahr , SOH 96.49, Hx 114.98
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Nubo
Posts: 4837
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Location: Vallejo, CA

Re: Tesla Model X

Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:28 am

scottf200 wrote:
RegGuheert wrote:Autopilot drove this vehicle directly into a concrete divider barrier, killing the driver.


The driver determined on their own to enable the driver assistance feature ** moments ** before the crash and set the following distance to 1 (out of 7).

10s of 1000s of drivers make choices every single day that cause them to get into an accident. Many 1000s every day.


The thing is, each of those drivers are liable for their own mistakes. The cost is distributed. However, if you sell an "autopilot" that accepts and executes a blatantly unsafe command, then you as a manufacturer are liable for an unsafe product. The drivers' lack of responsibility in the poor selection doesn't absolve Tesla, especially if there is harm to third parties. And it's this principle across automated driving as a whole, that will come to bite the manufacturers hard -- whether their cars are safer "on average" than a human driver or not. The costs will be concentrated, not distributed. The only way around this is for government to intervene and deny rights of victims to sue for full compensation.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

GRA
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Re: Tesla Model X

Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:38 pm

ISTM that while the severity of the damage and the fatal injury are specific to the Model X, now that Tesla has confirmed that the car was under the control of A/P at the time of the crash, that discussion belongs in either the "Autonomous Vehicles, Leaf and others" or "Tesla's Autopilot, on the road" topics. It's as yet unclear whether this crash was due to some problem specific to Tesla or was more generic to AV systems. Now that companies other than Tesla have vehicles with some AV capability out in the real world and such crashes will become increasingly frequent, I think the general AV topic is the correct one, and I'll be posting any further news/comments related to the causes of this accident there, along with those relating to the Uber accident, legal fallout, etc.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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RegGuheert
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Re: Tesla Model X

Sat Mar 31, 2018 3:44 pm

Now that Tesla KNOWS that their Autopilot product drove into this concrete barricade, I think this is a perfect opportunity for Tesla to put their OTA update capability into service in order to "do the right thing" with regards to this accident. They can instruct Autopilot that this stretch of highway is a "lock-out zone" until they have been able to determine exactly why the Autopilot drove this customer to his death. Once product defect is understood, corrected, fully tested in the question area and the conditions are added to the regression test suite, then they can unblock this section of road.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K miles: Apr 14, 2013, 20K miles (55.7Ah): Aug 7, 2014, 30K miles (52.0Ah): Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah): Feb 8, 2017, 50K miles (47.2Ah): Dec 7, 2017.
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GRA
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Re: Tesla Model X

Mon May 21, 2018 6:18 pm

Bjorn tests* bio-weapon defense mode in his Model X, via IEVS: https://insideevs.com/bjorn-stink-bombs-his-own-model-x-in-the-name-of-science/

*Requirements: a friend?, one can of odorous Swedish fish, two plastic buckets, a can opener, and a shower cap. Watch the video, it's hilarious.
Reminds of my Teamster days, when I once worked in a freight terminal (aka barn) that had to handle a container full of raw hides that had been sitting closed in the sun all day. I didn't have to work it myself (if they hadn't finished it before my turn came, I would have quit), but just walking past the back of the trailer as much as 10 feet away it was as if you physically collided with a wall of revolting scent - you recoiled. I would have been puking my guts out if I'd been inside the container, and I don't know to this day how the two unfortunates who had to work it managed.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
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Re: Tesla Model X

Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:34 pm

Via IEVS:
Bjørn Descends 18% Grade In Tesla Model X Without Brakes
https://insideevs.com/bjorn-descends-18-grade-in-tesla-model-x-without-brakes/

. . . Was his Model X able to pull it off? Well, there are a few tense moments when the car gained speed just before a turn. And during the short drive he suggests that the Ampera-e might be better suited to this due to it’s higher regenerative braking. . . .

Of great interest to me, as a lot of my driving involves steep mountain roads, including regularly descending Old Priest Grade (18-20%) on my way back from Yosemite, and the east side of Sonora Pass is 25 or 26%. I really liked the Bolt's regen selections when I test drove it, although I didn't have a chance to descend any steep roads.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

scottf200
Posts: 1781
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Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2011
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Re: Tesla Model X

Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:45 pm

GRA wrote:Via IEVS:
Bjørn Descends 18% Grade In Tesla Model X Without Brakes
https://insideevs.com/bjorn-descends-18-grade-in-tesla-model-x-without-brakes/

. . . Was his Model X able to pull it off? Well, there are a few tense moments when the car gained speed just before a turn. And during the short drive he suggests that the Ampera-e might be better suited to this due to it’s higher regenerative braking. . . .

Of great interest to me, as a lot of my driving involves steep mountain roads, including regularly descending Old Priest Grade (18-20%) on my way back from Yosemite, and the east side of Sonora Pass is 25 or 26%. I really liked the Bolt's regen selections when I test drove it, although I didn't have a chance to descend any steep roads.

I watched the video and it seemed like the regen worked perfectly and it did not appear to be ANY tense moments at all. All those 'switch backs' had flat spots and the car slowed down easily to like 6 to 8 mph.

It would be pretty hard to touch the brake for a second or two so this is critical :) /sarcasm.
100K EV miles and 80% EV usage
Volt = 53+ mile BEV up to 100 MPH, then 40 MPG hybrid with a 9 gal gas tank
'17 Tesla Model X 100D 'used'| RIP '16 P90DL Sig | 2011 Volt kid2 | 2016 for wife | 2012 kid1

GRA
Posts: 8887
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Tesla Model X

Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:02 pm

scottf200 wrote:
GRA wrote:Via IEVS:
Bjørn Descends 18% Grade In Tesla Model X Without Brakes
https://insideevs.com/bjorn-descends-18-grade-in-tesla-model-x-without-brakes/

. . . Was his Model X able to pull it off? Well, there are a few tense moments when the car gained speed just before a turn. And during the short drive he suggests that the Ampera-e might be better suited to this due to it’s higher regenerative braking. . . .

Of great interest to me, as a lot of my driving involves steep mountain roads, including regularly descending Old Priest Grade (18-20%) on my way back from Yosemite, and the east side of Sonora Pass is 25 or 26%. I really liked the Bolt's regen selections when I test drove it, although I didn't have a chance to descend any steep roads.

I watched the video and it seemed like the regen worked perfectly and it did not appear to be ANY tense moments at all. All those 'switch backs' had flat spots and the car slowed down easily to like 6 to 8 mph.

It would be pretty hard to touch the brake for a second or two so this is critical :) /sarcasm.

As long as it's at least the equivalent decel of 2nd gear compression braking in a stick it's fine, but I prefer to have more real time control than having to choose it on the touchscreen. That's why I like the Bolt (and Volt), as you've got 'D' or 'B' on the shift lever with an easy toggle (pull back and release) between the two, and you can add extra regen with the paddle in either mode. Coming down from say Tioga Pass, I expect I'd be coasting in 'D' most of the way, using the paddle to slow me as necessary, and rarely wanting 'B' mode. It's nice to have 'B' plus paddle for those really steep downhills like Old Priest, especially when heavily loaded. If I'd learned to drive in a car with constant heavy regen it might be a different story, but as I've always driven manual trannies I prefer being able to select/adjust my regen levels on the fly, without needing to feather the accelerator to coast.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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