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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 9:20 pm 
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Location: Foothills of Granada Hills, CA
Delivery Date: 01 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000360
I have to agree. The FFE is clearly more of a driver's car and you do see some of that extra cost in the interior, features, and appointments. The fellow I drove with today let me push it and throw it around a bit and it was definitely more rewarding when driven thusly than the Leaf. My wife and I, too, rarely ever have anyone in the back seat so space there is of no great interest to us. Everything considered however, if I was doing it over again today I would likely still stick with the Leaf, or if it was available, I might seriously consider the BYD. That 10Kw onboard charger, QC, and 185 mile range is mighty appealing for around $40k......

I also drove the Volt again since it had been a while since I last drove one and that reconfirmed why I went with the Leaf instead... I wanted to drive the Fisker they had there but that, alas, was by invitation only! :D

Boomer23 wrote:
If I had the two cars to choose from head-to-head, my personal choice for a driver's car would be the FFE, but that is only because I value sporty driving over interior space. I'd truly be hard pressed, though, because the FFE lacks any kind of quick charge capability beyond its 6.6 kW standard charger, and because the FFE is $40,000.

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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 9:28 pm 
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Location: Sacramento, CA
Delivery Date: 31 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 1100011011
Boomer23 wrote:
Trunk photos:



is the trunk really angled down like that or is it an optical illusion? It looks like anything left on the floor will slide back into the hatch, and when you open it, it will fall right out on the ground.

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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 9:40 pm 
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Location: Simi Valley, CA
palmermd wrote:
Boomer23 wrote:
Trunk photos:



is the trunk really angled down like that or is it an optical illusion? It looks like anything left on the floor will slide back into the hatch, and when you open it, it will fall right out on the ground.

Picture of floor lifted shows two "Legs" that can be left down to have a level floor. When folded, the storage covers slopes. It's your choice depending on cargo.


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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 9:43 pm 
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Location: Orange County, CA
Delivery Date: 30 Mar 2011
palmermd wrote:
Boomer23 wrote:
Trunk photos:



is the trunk really angled down like that or is it an optical illusion? It looks like anything left on the floor will slide back into the hatch, and when you open it, it will fall right out on the ground.


That folding cover is angled down as it appears to be, but it can be propped up flat. Anything that might roll would be best placed underneath that folding cover, into the storage well below that is shown in one of the pics.

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 2:23 pm 
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Location: East S.F. Bay Area
My thanks to those who posted driving reports. I'm hoping they show up at dealers soon so I can try one. Does anyone know if Ford has any contracts with rental companies to put some in their fleets, ala the Leaf? I did some Googling but couldn't find any mention, unlike the (out of date) info about the Coda. I asked Coda if the deals with Hertz and Enterprise were still on but they didn't reply, which I guess we can take as a 'No', or at least they're in abeyance until Coda demonstrates that it's not going to fold in the next few months to a year.

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[I have extensive experience/knowledge designing and selling battery-based AE systems and some using EVs, but don't own an EV].

When nurturing a new technology, under-promise and over-deliver rather than the opposite.


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 5:38 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:38 am
Posts: 1067
Location: Southeast Michigan
Leaf Number: 19628
TonyWilliams wrote:
Since you're from the motor city area, I am going to guess any Japanese car is "not quite as good".


I don't judge cars without personal experience. Japanese cars can be quite good. I was rather impressed with my brothers Mazdaspeed 3. Being from the Motor City area (or anywhere else), the LEAF is inferior to the Focus when it comes to overall quality. I'm surprised anyone would dispute this. Though you didn't necessarily dispute this- you just prejudged me.

TonyWilliams wrote:
I don't fit in a Focus, and I'm only 6'2".


I totally agree with you there. In fact, there isn't a single car in Fords current line up that fits me well. My legs and knees are claustrophobic ;).

TonyWilliams wrote:
I don't agree with your thoughts on ChaDeMo, but not a surprising comment for a Detroit centric mindset.


Again, more prejudice. But ChaDeMo is dead. I'm not sure how you can ignore this. Automakers want one place to plug in. It's easier for everyone that way. I'm not sure why the Japanese would want two places to plug in. Probably because they had no other choice with no standard being made yet. I commend Nissan for pioneering the idea and doing what was necessary to make it happen with no standard being made yet, but I don't think fanboys should discourage a better solution.

TonyWilliams wrote:
I doubt there is greater real range in the Ford over the LEAF; I would guess they are merely comparable, with perhaps a slightly greater advantage to the Ford at speeds over 60mph if it is more aerodynamic (it should be if done right with a slightly smaller car). The 6.6 charger will be matched by the LEAF in just a handful of months.


Liquid thermal management is superior to air. The FFE will not only provide marginally better range in moderate temperatures, but I have a feeling it will provide substantially better range than the LEAF in winter conditions. They aren't merely comparable and there is no slight advantage. The FFE is the clear winner. Of course, you're paying for it if you get a FFE.

TonyWilliams wrote:
The final issues with a converted Focus is weight. I suspect it is significantly heavier than a LEAF.


I suspect you may be right. But even with the presumably heavier weight and smaller battery pack, it's still more efficient than the LEAF. Again, everyone should put it into perspective with the outrageous $40K pricetag.

TonyWilliams wrote:
I don't see a single category that a Focus would be an improvement over a LEAF for me. The Toyota Rav-4 EV is my next choice.


Steering and handling may be subjective, so let's ignore those. Warm and cold weather range. Energy efficiency. Quality. Audio. Performance.

The RAV4-EV would be nice, but I hope they consider making a 4x4 version.

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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 3:32 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:27 am
Posts: 519
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Delivery Date: 05 Apr 2012
kubel wrote:
Liquid thermal management is superior to air.
That particular assertion remains to be seen. In theory, LTM should do a much better job of keeping the batteries at their optimum operating temperature. But in practice, it's also a more complicated system, with more things that can go wrong. I would also think that it should be much easier to replace bad cells in a Leaf battery pack than in one where the cells are encased in liquid.

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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 4:28 am 
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Location: Northern Virginia
I would say the Leaf could benefit from liquid temp management for the pack to control DC fast charge heat rise

and the Focus EV could do without it and save 100 lbs or so since it has no DC fast charge !

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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 4:59 am 
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Location: Timbuktu, Mali
Delivery Date: 29 Aug 2012
garsh wrote:
But in practice, it's also a more complicated system, with more things that can go wrong. I would also think that it should be much easier to replace bad cells in a Leaf battery pack than in one where the cells are encased in liquid.


Leaks will rear their ugly hear right after your warranty runs out.


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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 5:03 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:42 pm
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garsh wrote:
...than in one where the cells are encased in liquid.

That's... not really how it works. :roll:

Liquid cooling for battery packs work exactly the same way liquid cooling for your computer works: a heat exchanger. The idea of submersing the battery in coolant is silly for all sorts of reasons, maintenance being the least of them.
=Smidge=


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