FIAT 500e

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redLEAF

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Went through a quick search on the forum and didn't see a thread just for the 2012 Fiat 500 EV, although lot's of mentions of the ICE version just now coming out; latest from the CEO below, saw the protoype at the Chicago Auto Show, this says it will be a loss leader (no surprise) but will be interesting if it's $45K versus the $32K mentioned earlier, expect to loose $10K on each one sold :


http://www.autoweek.com/article/20110401/GREEN/110409992


If it ends up at $45K doubtful if people will be lining up ...
 
"The economics of EVs simply don't work. On the 500 that (Chrysler) will begin selling in the U.S. next year, we will lose over $10,000 (per unit) despite the retail price being three times higher" than a version of minicar with an internal combustion engine, Marchionne said on the sidelines of Fiat S.p.A.'s general meeting on Wednesday.
Really? I hope Nissan and Tesla don't see this :roll:
 
EdmondLeaf said:
I owned Fiat Uno and Cinquecento and won't buy any Fiat anymore.

This goes way back but I also owned a Fiat back in 1979 (picked up a '75 Fiat 'Sport' Spyder 1800 with only 17K miles in NH, drove it for 3 years) and it was actually a pretty good car most of the time -- had some typical italian quirks but the styling, power and comfort were better than a '74 MGB (last of the chrome bumpered -- lower ride height) than I owned several years later. Like all makes, each one goes through both good times and bad, with Fiat being paired up with Chrysler I'm not sure how the warranty/service will be but before MBZ/Daimler gave up on Chrysler it actually did produce a few great products that used the best of both. This first Fiat should at least be given a chance so with the EV version following we'll be able to see if the ICE version will hold its own. The 500 is a very small car (only 140 inches long -- for comparison a MINI coupe is about 6 and half inches longer!) so the perception of being a 'cheap' small car may work against it if the EV verision is really expensive.
 
I drove my 82 Fiat Spider 2000 yesterday. Currently my lowest miles (108 k) and best mileage (about 25 mpg, county or Freeway) vehicle since I disposed of my 30-34 mpg 2 litre 5 speed Dodge Stratus last winter AFTER NISSAN GAVE ME A JANUARY-FEBRUARY DELIVERY WINDOW.

FWIW, based on my own favorable experiences with 75-82 Fiats (owned 3), and 89-95 Chrysler vehicles (also 3), I think they both produced vehicles better than their crummy reputations (during those time periods) suggested.

I'm disappointed that Fiat seems to be taking the same approach as Ford with EV.s, simply doing a low-volume conversion of an existing ICE car. A year ago the 500 , and the Focus seemed to be the likely alternatives to the LEAF. Now, it looks like it's narrowed down to the LEAF or ICE, for my next car.
 
edatoakrun said:
I'm disappointed that Fiat seems to be taking the same approach as Ford with EV.s, simply doing a low-volume conversion of an existing ICE car. A year ago the 500 , and the Focus seemed to be the likely alternatives to the LEAF. Now, it looks like it's narrowed down to the LEAF or ICE, for my next car.


Assume that you're not near one of these 'launch' cities for the Ford Focus EV? Atlanta, Austin, Houston, Boston, Chicago, Denver, Detroit, Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Diego, New York,
Orlando, Phoenix, Tucson, Portland, Oregon; Raleigh Durham, Richmond, Va., Seattle or Washington, D.C. ? As it stands today the Focus EV will be available in Chicago before the LEAF so that's probably what we'll end up with.
 
redLEAF said:
edatoakrun said:
I'm disappointed that Fiat seems to be taking the same approach as Ford with EV.s, simply doing a low-volume conversion of an existing ICE car. A year ago the 500 , and the Focus seemed to be the likely alternatives to the LEAF. Now, it looks like it's narrowed down to the LEAF or ICE, for my next car.


Assume that you're not near one of these 'launch' cities for the Ford Focus EV? Atlanta, Austin, Houston, Boston, Chicago, Denver, Detroit, Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Diego, New York,
Orlando, Phoenix, Tucson, Portland, Oregon; Raleigh Durham, Richmond, Va., Seattle or Washington, D.C. ? As it stands today the Focus EV will be available in Chicago before the LEAF so that's probably what we'll end up with.

Redleaf, I was wondering the same thing. However, it doesn't sound like Ford is all that excited about delivering an EV. I just wonder if they will stay the course or have it end up being like the EV1.
 
I had a 1969 Fiat 124 Sport Spyder and it was a great and fun car. I ran it 100,000 miles with no problems. I sold it in 88 when I bought my Vette.
 
chijayhawker said:
redLEAF said:
edatoakrun said:
I'm disappointed that Fiat seems to be taking the same approach as Ford with EV.s, simply doing a low-volume conversion of an existing ICE car. A year ago the 500 , and the Focus seemed to be the likely alternatives to the LEAF. Now, it looks like it's narrowed down to the LEAF or ICE, for my next car.


Assume that you're not near one of these 'launch' cities for the Ford Focus EV? Atlanta, Austin, Houston, Boston, Chicago, Denver, Detroit, Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Diego, New York,
Orlando, Phoenix, Tucson, Portland, Oregon; Raleigh Durham, Richmond, Va., Seattle or Washington, D.C. ? As it stands today the Focus EV will be available in Chicago before the LEAF so that's probably what we'll end up with.

Redleaf, I was wondering the same thing. However, it doesn't sound like Ford is all that excited about delivering an EV. I just wonder if they will stay the course or have it end up being like the EV1.


chijayhawker, it's all speculation now although I wasn't pleased that Ford pulled the Focus EV from the Chicago Auto Show (apparently, it had another 'engagement' according to the Ford spokesman I talked to at the show); I can tell you that I signed up for the $50 Ford Test Drive and am waiting for them to at least get the 2012 Focus hatchback ICE in stock to drive -- should be similar enough (except for the loss of luggage space from the battery) to see if we like it. We should also hopefully see Fiat 500's around here fairly soon (looks like IL gets three -- Highland Park - John Fields; Schaumburg - IL Aaron Zeigler and FIAT of Orland Park - IL Michael Bettenhausen
 
redLEAF said:
As it stands today the Focus EV will be available in Chicago before the LEAF so that's probably what we'll end up with.
If I were the product manager in Ford, I'd concentrate on releasing the car in cities Leaf hasn't released yet.

Ofcourse, it is not like any EV has not got delayed or priced out of reach ...
 
Took a test drive in an ICE Fiat 500 (Sport version with automatic and convenience package) yesterday at Fields Fiat in Highland Park, IL to get an idea of how the eventual EV version might be -- this dealer's 'Design Studio' is still being built (open's next week, grand opening expected June 25th) but they're already selling cars out of the their other dealership down the road. Yesterday was miserable here in Chicago (cold and damp) so had a chance to use the heated seats and auto-temp controls/wipers. First off -- the Fiat is indeed quite small, not as small as our smart coupe but very apparent when you walk up to it. The front seats were quite comfortable (this car didn't have the sunroof which cuts headroom by an inch and a half) for both my son (5' 11") and myself (5' 8") as well as quickly became toasty turning on the heated seats (one design flaw yet checked out, don't appear that there is an indicator if the seat heaters are on -- no light). It's easy to find a comfortable driving position and all controls within easy reach -- decent padding and bolsters. Other reviewers have said that the front two seats come out of a Fiat roadster rather than the Euro 500, don't know but they're nice. Back seat is just OK for average height or less folks, but will NOT work if someone pushes the front seat all the way back -- it will eliminate any legroom. The ride is decent, visibility is quite good (even out the rear) due to higher ride height than say a MINI and it accelerates well with smooth shifts. This one had the 'sport' wheels (16") so would be curious if the higher sidewall 15" would be better over bumps (these come on the lower end Pop and 'luxury' Lounge models); ride wasn't punishing as some have complained about the smart but with such a short car isn't like a normal sedan either. The 'trunk' area under the hatch isn't huge but the rear seats will fold down for more cargo. The 'base' model Pop w/o auto goes for $15,500 with a high end loaded Lounge at $23,500 so they do offer a lot depending on equip level -- especially the range of colors (the have a much brighter red (Rosso Brillante), very nice light green (Verde Chairo) and kind of a medium rust color (Rame) that really sets the car off well) -- the car is very compact so would be curious if the battery pack would end up like what the Focus EV does -- the 500 is a much smaller and lighter car so perhaps it would be better integrated like the smart ED -- in any case if the EV version is this nice it would be worth a look (not at anything over say $30K before rebates; that just won't sell) -- Fiat covers first 3 years of maintenance (includes brakes, wiper blades, etc.) as well as roadside assistance, pretty good for a car in this class. If they prove reliable the ICE's could do well here; definitely not something you would see everyday --
 
First real pictures up on Motor Trend. I guess they didn't move the charge port after all. I see it back there where the gas tank would normally be. Sigh.

http://wot.motortrend.com/first-fiat-500e-ev-photos-revealed-before-l-a-auto-show-debut-292471.html#axzz2CR6pgMJn" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
mwalsh said:
First real pictures up on Motor Trend. I guess they didn't move the charge port after all. I see it back there where the gas tank would normally be. Sigh.
http://wot.motortrend.com/first-fiat-500e-ev-photos-revealed-before-l-a-auto-show-debut-292471.html#axzz2CR6pgMJn" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From the motortrend article
yet another ultra-low-volume subcompact electric vehicle
If and when Fiat does something more than a compliance car I will take a closer look. Until then pass....
 
redLEAF said:
This brief write-up mentions the push button trans which I saw from the photos posted earlier but there was no mention of them ... reminds me of the cars from the '60's with the push button automatics on the dash (Chrysler's I believe)

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20121116/losangeles/121119892#ixzz2Ca1UWnyE

HEY, COOL! The push-button transmission WAS one of our ideas from the focus group! :D

I've always said that an electric vehicle doesn't have to have a traditional shifter. And it makes even more sense to save the real-estate in a small car! :)
 
I didn't know they were just going to slap a few buttons onto the same console the ICE has. I think we were going for space-savings, where all this does is save your gentleman vegetables while you're petting with your main girl!
 

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Didn't see this under the new Fiat 500e so thought I would post it here ...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323894704578115153704768888.html

"The California law's impact on auto makers will be on display late next week at the Los Angeles Auto Show, where Chrysler will unveil its first battery-powered car—a Fiat 500e subcompact supplied by majority owner Fiat SpA—that it will start selling in the state next year. Chrysler Chief Executive Sergio Marchionne has estimated Chrysler will lose between $8,000 and $9,000 on each 500e it sells; pricing hasn't been disclosed."

But as it's been said many times, as California goes so goes the nation ... I've heard most of the automaker's want a nationwide standard anyway as this niche market (although much too large to ignore) drives their costs up; can still remember the CA market only ICE's series cars, seems its still going on but this time with EV's.
 
Spotted one in the wild (downtown SF) on Saturday. It had EV stickers on the rear window and Michigan manufacturer plates. It also had a piece of cloth covering the rear bumper. I suspect it escaped from the auto show which was ongoing a few blocks from there.
 
Fiat 500e details with VERY long press release at http://www.autoblog.com/2012/11/28/2013-fiat-500e-finally-ready-to-rock-down-to-electric-orange-ave" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.
 
Here is a photo of one of the test mules here in San Francisco from a few weeks ago:

36625_4721721971029_1414628537_n.jpg
 
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