jjeff
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Re: Kia Niro BEV

Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:20 pm

I don't live in CA but last time I was there, it wasn't all desert, many mountainous areas that could benefit from a heat pump :roll: just plain stupid IMO making a special car just for CA, seems to me it might end up costing more in the long run. Reminds me of the 70s where CA had special vehicles, at least emission parts prompting special footnotes for CA vehicles.
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LeftieBiker
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Re: Kia Niro BEV

Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:14 pm

My '95 Civic EX was a California Spec car.
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goldbrick
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Re: Kia Niro BEV

Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:18 pm

Is it possible that the heat pump uses a refrigerant that is banned by CA or heavily taxed or has some sort of strict safety requirements?

I just can't understand why they wouldn't sell heat pump cars in CA. There are many wealthy folks there to buy an EV and it seems like the added cost for the upgrade would be a money maker for Kia.

KeiJidosha
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Re: Kia Niro BEV

Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:41 am

goldbrick wrote:Is it possible that the heat pump uses a refrigerant that is banned by CA or heavily taxed or has some sort of strict safety requirements?

I just can't understand why they wouldn't sell heat pump cars in CA. There are many wealthy folks there to buy an EV and it seems like the added cost for the upgrade would be a money maker for Kia.

I got the impression that the issue was hitting a price point, not that there was any kind of a prohibition. Yes, California has moderate temps, but I for one would pay for the Heat Pump option for the added range and efficiency when our weather is occasionally less bucolic.
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OrientExpress
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Re: Kia Niro BEV

Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:03 am

2018 LEAF SL
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jjeff
Posts: 1864
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
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Leaf Number: 422121
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Re: Kia Niro BEV

Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:06 pm


Thanks Orient, no mention that the heatpump isn't available for CA, just seems to be an option for all Niros....
Not that I think this is the case now but another bad reason to make the heatpump a non-option for CA is it's my guess CA is a major exporter of BEV to the rest of the country, on the used market. I know in MN when I went looking for a used Leaf, 95% seemed to be coming from CA, lease returns. If this still follows, down the line some poor sucker in MN could end up without a battery heater(also always an option for both trim models which I'm assuming might come with the heatpump heater option??) . Anyway I can't imagine it would be good for the battery to be used in -20F or even as low as -40F without a battery heater :o

Couple things that stand out:
To get heated front seats you must get the premium model where it's standard, no option for heated rear seats :(
To get a heated steering wheel you must get the premium and then it's an option.
When you get the premium you're forced to get leather and worse(IMO) a sunroof :x
No CD player in any model :(
Most safety features(lane keep assist, etc.) are standard on all models :)
CSS QC standard on all models.
Interesting, only tire size(17") which is odd, Nissan always likes to up the rim size in higher trim models(something I don't care for).

With the exception of the whole heated seats/steering wheel thing, which IMO is almost a must, at least in my climate and I really don't want leather and really really don't want a sunroof(reduced headroom) the Niro seems to be a nicely loaded vehicle, even in the base trim. Again with just the addition of the heated options, I'd be perfectly happy with the base.
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
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DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Kia Niro BEV

Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:39 am

jjeff wrote:

Thanks Orient, no mention that the heatpump isn't available for CA, just seems to be an option for all Niros....
Not that I think this is the case now but another bad reason to make the heatpump a non-option for CA is it's my guess CA is a major exporter of BEV to the rest of the country, on the used market. I know in MN when I went looking for a used Leaf, 95% seemed to be coming from CA, lease returns. If this still follows, down the line some poor sucker in MN could end up without a battery heater(also always an option for both trim models which I'm assuming might come with the heatpump heater option??) . Anyway I can't imagine it would be good for the battery to be used in -20F or even as low as -40F without a battery heater :o

Couple things that stand out:
To get heated front seats you must get the premium model where it's standard, no option for heated rear seats :(
To get a heated steering wheel you must get the premium and then it's an option.
When you get the premium you're forced to get leather and worse(IMO) a sunroof :x
No CD player in any model :(
Most safety features(lane keep assist, etc.) are standard on all models :)
CSS QC standard on all models.
Interesting, only tire size(17") which is odd, Nissan always likes to up the rim size in higher trim models(something I don't care for).

With the exception of the whole heated seats/steering wheel thing, which IMO is almost a must, at least in my climate and I really don't want leather and really really don't want a sunroof(reduced headroom) the Niro seems to be a nicely loaded vehicle, even in the base trim. Again with just the addition of the heated options, I'd be perfectly happy with the base.



Agreed; heated seats and steering wheel is a BIG want on my list. Not a dealbreaker but definitely makes me want to take multiple looks at the competition.
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jjeff
Posts: 1864
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Re: Kia Niro BEV

Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:03 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:

Agreed; heated seats and steering wheel is a BIG want on my list. Not a dealbreaker but definitely makes me want to take multiple looks at the competition.

I'm sure I've said it before but standard(on the base model none the less!) heated seats(front and rear) and a heated steering wheel basically sold me on my first Leaf, a new '13S(with the charger package). I'm not sure I wouldn't have gotten the Leaf without those two(or would it be 3, F and R heated seats) options but it sure put a positive light on the Leaf.
I understand later models of basically anything start cheaping out on things, after all people always want things for less, but IMO heated seats and a steering wheel on an electric car(where heating the whole cabin can really effect range) seem to me to be the wrong thing to save pennies on. Now maybe someone in sunny CA might think differently but not in my neck of the woods.
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

GRA
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Re: Kia Niro BEV

Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:56 pm

My take is that while heated seats and steering are nice, for commuting between charging points they're less critical than they are in an ICE, if you can remote heat the car. So, while wanted, they wouldn't be a deal breaker for me for a PEV. As it is, I typically only use the heated seat in my ICE (don't have a heated steering wheel) until the engine has warmed up enough that I can switch to the heater, as I prefer having warm air blown onto my front. More valuable to me in a PEV would be driver-side only HVAC. The Gen 1 Soul EV had this, but I don't see it listed for the Niro; presumably they figure with the car's extra range and the heat pump it isn't worth the trouble for most people.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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Re: Kia Niro BEV

Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:40 pm

X-posted from Soul EV topic - IEVS:
Canadian Pricing Revealed For Kia Soul EV & Niro EV
https://insideevs.com/canadian-price-kia-soul-ev-niro-ev/

The presentation is a little chaotic, but it includes the prices, which is the most interesting part:

Kia Soul EV (e-Soul) – $42,595 CAD ($31,852 USD)
Kia Niro EV (e-Niro) – $44,995 CAD ($33,647 USD)

*both with 64 kWh battery and 150 kW electric motor

If those prices directly translate to the U.S., they'll be flying out the doors. Of course, that assumes that the dealers don't add $5k+ markups.

The Detroit News:
Payne: Kia's Niro electric SUV shrugs off the cold
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/opinion/columnists/henry-payne/2019/04/17/review-kia-niro-electric-suv-shrugs-off-cold-test/3470039002/

And now for something completely different. The battery-powered Kia Niro that suffers no range loss in cold weather.

This has been the winter of my battery discontent. I enjoy electric vehicles, from the Chevy Volt to the Hyundai Kona to my Tesla Model 3. They are all mass-market targeted with attractive designs, good cabin room and — in the case of the Kona and Niro (and the Volt’s sister Bolt EV) — utilitarian hatchbacks. They push the class envelope on acceleration, interior design and technology.

But they also push my patience with serious battery degradation when the weather gets frosty outside. Which is often in Michigan.

When the mercury drops below 40 degrees, battery range drops with it. At 30 degrees, range suffers by 25 percent. Under 20 degrees (including the sub-zero polar vortex this winter), range drops a dramatic 50 percent.

Not the Niro EV.

The little Kia arrived in my driveway this March in 31-degree weather with 163 miles of range left (fully charged the Niro promises a Chevy Bolt-like 239 miles). I jumped in for an afternoon’s adventure ... but not too much of an adventure, mindful that I likely had just 115 miles of actual range.

After 12 miles on the odometer I had lost just 11 miles of range. What?

The game was on. I logged 77 miles that day while losing just 70 miles off the battery, an unprecedented feat. And I wasn’t babying the Niro, either.

My journey took me across 70 mph interstates (hitting 80 mph at times, and a steady state of 75) as well as Detroit city traffic. Oakland County twisties. Meijer parking lots. I flogged the Kia in Eco, Normal and Sport modes just like every other EV I’ve driven.

On day two, temps improved to 43 degrees (for the first time this winter I was actually hoping for sub-zero readings just so I could test the Niro EV), but range didn’t change. The little hatchback soldiered on, logging a total of 114 miles on the odometer while losing just 110 miles of range

By comparison, the Niro’s Hyundai Kona sister car consumed 56 miles of battery in 20-degree temps while traveling just 28 miles on the odometer.

How does the Niro do it? Despite surface similarities, it appears the Korea siblings are quite different.

While they share a 201-horse electric motor, the Hyundai and Kia source their batteries with different battery manufacturers — LG Chem for Kona and SK Innovation for Kia. But the most dramatic difference in my tester appears to be that the Niro has an electric coolant-heater to warm the battery (Hyundai says it has something similar — but elected to import its Kona without one).

I can preheat my Tesla Model 3 cabin in my garage, but that doesn’t do the battery any good. On a 30-degree jaunt to Kalamazoo this winter I got just 50 percent of battery range. Ouch. The Niro EV, by contrast, sat bone-cold in my driveway without any preheating ability — yet overperformed on range. Take a bow, Kia. . . .

While I don't doubt the battery heater may have played some part, he seems to be unaware that the Niro has a heat pump and the Kona and Model 3 don't, and given the above freezing temps that would definitely give the Niro a real-world range advantage. Which is exactly why those of us in California who would want to use it for ski trips want the heat pump.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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