GRA
Posts: 10466
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Kia Niro BEV

Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:01 pm

Tom Moloughney via IEVS, essentially a follow-on to above article:
Kia Niro EV Extended 900-Mile Road Test Review
https://insideevs.com/reviews/353019/kia-niro-ev-extended-road-test-review/

. . . Engadget recently reviewed the Kia Niro EV and proclaimed that it was "relentlessly sensible". The truth is, I could have come up with something similar to describe how I feel about the Niro EV's styling, but in all honestly, Engadget nailed it, so I wanted to give them the credit they deserve. I don't dislike how it looks, nor do I love how it looks. It's OK. It's definitely more of form following function, which is what you'd expect from a small crossover from Kia. . . .

The Niro EV is EPA rated at 239 miles, exactly 1 mile more than the Chevy Bolt EV. However, my time with the Niro EV seemed to indicate the EPA range rating was a bit on the conservative side.

I've been driving EVs as my daily driver for nearly ten years now, so I'm intimately familiar with the concept of range being a moving target. Here in New Jersey, I can expect anywhere from 20% to 40% better range in the spring and early fall, when temperatures are in the 70's, as compared to winter when it can get down to zero degrees.

However, the Niro EV beat the EPA range rating by an unusual margin in my week with the car, in which time I put over 900 miles on it. I averaged about 270 miles per charge, and even pushed it to a little over 300 miles once. I'm sure winter driving will slice a good number of miles off of what I witnessed; however, the Niro EV does have an optional heat pump that will mitigate the range loss in the colder months.

As for efficiency, I averaged 4.6 to 4.8 miles per kWh driving around town at lower speeds, and 3.6 to 3.7 miles per kWh on the highway at 70 - 75 mph. At 4.7 miles per kWh, the 64 kWh battery should deliver 300 miles exactly. . . .

Level 2 charging was a bit of a surprise for me. One day I depleted the battery down to 3% and fully charged it on my JuiceBox Pro 40 to record the charging profile and total electricity delivered to the vehicle.

It took 9 hours and 37 minutes to fully charge and the vehicle took 70.83 kWh! Kia lists the Niro EV as having a 64 kWh battery, so that's obviously the usable portion of the battery, and the total capacity has to be a good bit more. There's charging losses to consider, and even if that's 10%, which would be high, that's still 64 kWh delivered to the battery and it was at 3% SOC when the charging session began.

Plus, the Niro EV took the full 32 amps the entire charging session. Usually, there's a ramp-down period that begins on most EVs at around 90% SOC. Some EVs hold the full charge rate a little longer, like my 2018 i3S does, and charges at the full rate until it's about 94-95% charged. I've never seen an EV take the full charge rate all the way up to 100%, and then just stop charging without any kind of ramp-down like the Kia Niro did. Impressive. . . .

Conclusions

I'm definitely joining the long list of reviews that have roundly praised the Niro EV. It's far for [Sic.] perfect for everyone, but for many people I do think it's just about as good an EV as you can buy today. It all depends on what you want out of your car.

Its large, 64 kWh usable battery pack provides much more than the EPA rates 239 miles per charge in favorable conditions, and with careful driving 300 miles is absolutely attainable. It would have been nice if the Niro EV had a higher DC fast charge rate, and 100kW charging would make the occasional long-distance road trip more convenient. At the current rate, you need to stop for about an hour to charge to 80%, and probably another half hour to get to 100% if your journey requires it.

It doesn't handle all that well, but it's a small family crossover, not a sports car. But honestly, I'm nitpicking a bit. The Niro EV is so good at most everything else it does, that I have to think hard to find something to criticize. . . .

Relentlessly sensible. I wrote the following after reading Engadget's Niro BEV review back in February, from which the foregoing quote comes, but it bears repeating, especially now that Toyota and Subaru are collaborating on BEVs:
They've built a BEV Subaru wagon! Without the AWD, unfortunately, but I'm referring to the design intent.

I agree with Tom that the slow QC speed is a big deal for road trips, but am encouraged that so many people seem to be exceeding EPA ranges on it at highway speeds. Now, just add AWD and up the QC speed, and I would live with the range. I'll have to write to Subaru and say "do this and you're gold".
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

Leaf15
Posts: 147
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:51 am
Delivery Date: 09 Jun 2018
Location: Pennsylvania, USA

Re: Kia Niro BEV

Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:18 pm

Good to see, Hyundai continues its approach to range - very conservative when compared to all other EV that are rated at most favorable conditions(very worm), Hyundai rates range in moderately bad condition (middle of the winter). Batteries are also under-rated by 15% (10% more usable + 5% reserve), this is why L2 charge drops to zero right away, no any ramp down or dragging its feet after 90%. You might also notice - you have full regen at 100%, all other EV could not regen at all with battery at 100%. Getting more range all year around is a very good ownership experience, not kidding, it really makes great experience, very distinct from any other EV.
Leaf 2015 SV CPO traded for 2019 Hyundai Ionic Limited

alozzy
Posts: 1333
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact: Website

Re: Kia Niro BEV

Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:41 am

There continues to be almost zero supply of both the Kona Electric and the Kia Niro EV where I live, in Vancouver. It's pretty clear that both Hyundai and Kia view these as compliance cars that they are reluctantly building out of necessity.

Still true of almost every other car manufacturer too, as I've only seen a couple of ads for EVs over the last few years.

Was really hoping that the industry had turned a corner...
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
1-1/4" Curt #11396 hitch
After market, DIY LED DRLs
LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
Loving my first BEV :D

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 530
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Kia Niro BEV

Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:11 pm

That was one reason why I didn't wait for the Niro in IL. There have been no announcements, and no real supply even in other areas. I figured it would be at least a year before we saw one in Chicago (licensed to an IL residence). When I spoke to the local Kia/Hyundai dealerships, they said they had also heard nothing. They didn't know of any dealers even selling the legacy Soul EV.

So with that information, I went forward with the leaf. I am guessing they are still pretty supply constrained and likely not making much if anything yet on the car. (vs. Nissan I believe who is making some margin from a build perspective on the Leaf, and scaled out to 3 plants for the car). Even Nissan will be a bit supply constrained for the next year with the new marketing campaign in full swing, and new demand in Europe with the + now launched.
2019 SV Plus Silver
2013 Leaf SV
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max distance on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max distance on 19 Leaf: TBD

GRA
Posts: 10466
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Kia Niro BEV

Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:27 pm

I haven't seen any Niro BEVs yet, outside of the dealership when I test drove one (see upthread), but I've spotted a couple of Kona BEVs running around in the past week, and expect I'll spot my first Niro BEV in the wild in the not too-distant future. HEV and more recently PHEV Niros are certainly around.

I don't think either company sees them as compliance cars, but they are battery-constrained and s a result they're sending them to Europe as fast as they can make them, with the U.S. getting what they can spare.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 530
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Kia Niro BEV

Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:34 pm

I saw one in Seattle last week (Niro EV) near Pike St. Market. That’s been it.

Guessing we will have them in IL in about a year.
2019 SV Plus Silver
2013 Leaf SV
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max distance on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max distance on 19 Leaf: TBD

goldbrick
Posts: 447
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:33 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2017
Leaf Number: 311806
Location: Boulder, CO

Re: Kia Niro BEV

Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:05 am

There's one here at work in CO. I haven't met the owner yet but it seems like a very 'normal' car. It would be hard to peg it as an EV unless you were looking very closely.

GRA
Posts: 10466
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Kia Niro BEV

Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:42 pm

goldbrick wrote:There's one here at work in CO. I haven't met the owner yet but it seems like a very 'normal' car. It would be hard to peg it as an EV unless you were looking very closely.

Yep, it's a completely unremarkable-looking vehicle, "Relentlessly normal"as well as "Relentlessly sensible". It's definitely not the car for people who want their car to scream "LOOK AT ME, I'M DIFFERENT!" :lol:

You can tell the HEV, PHEV and BEV apart by some minor below the bumper blue trim highlighting front and rear on the PHEV and BEV, with the shapes of those trim pieces being different, horizontal for the BEV, and angled down before turning horizontal for the PHEV. Rear view of PHEV here: https://images.app.goo.gl/7kHMYCps8fs1snjUA

BEv here: https://images.app.goo.gl/pNUuVBfuBrVfVSMV9

There are similar treatments on the front of both cars. When I was at the dealership I spent some time figuring out field marks to distinguish them, and these were the best I found. From the front, you've also got the charge port.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 10466
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Kia Niro BEV

Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:19 pm

IEVS:
Consumer Reports: 2019 Kia Niro EV First Drive Review
https://insideevs.com/reviews/356577/2019-kia-niro-ev-first-drive/

They think the Kona's a better deal for many. I agree, but not for me or others who need the Niro's greater cargo space (which is still a bit short with the seats up, as noted in my review uptopic), or who need max. winter range in an area with mild winters such as here, where the Niro's heat pump will eliminate any range advantage the Kona has. Direct link to CR review: https://www.consumerreports.org/hybrids-evs/2019-kia-niro-ev-first-drive-review/

I look forward to seeing their full review and test.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

cwerdna
Posts: 9379
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Kia Niro BEV

Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:27 am

alozzy wrote:There continues to be almost zero supply of both the Kona Electric and the Kia Niro EV where I live, in Vancouver. It's pretty clear that both Hyundai and Kia view these as compliance cars that they are reluctantly building out of necessity.

Still true of almost every other car manufacturer too, as I've only seen a couple of ads for EVs over the last few years.

Was really hoping that the industry had turned a corner...

Just looked at https://insideevs.com/news/343998/month ... scorecard/ for US sales. Not surprising for HyunKia, the sales are puny.

Unclear if there's lack of supply, lack of awareness, lack of demand or too high a price (e.g. lack of discounting or dealer markups).

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Return to “Other Electric Cars & Plug-In Hybrids”