Nissan, Renault, and Mitsubishi Motors will all sell common ~$17,000 BEV

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edatoakrun

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Not clear if this BEV will be the Gen 2 or Gen 3 LEAF at this point (maybe we'll know more after CES) but since it is a major development in BEV strategy from all three companies, to consolidate production in one platform to reduce costs for all three versions of the same design, I think it this new BEV deserves it's own thread.

Great news, IMO, that NRM may be the first manufacturer of BEVs to accomplish what is necessary to end the market dominance of the ICEV.

Nissan eyes mass-producing $17,000 electric car
Big savings seen by sharing platform with Renault, Mitsubishi Motors

TOKYO -- Nissan Motor will share a common electric vehicle platform with its partners Renault and Mitsubishi Motors..

By using a common platform, Nissan hopes to come out with a plug-in priced at about 2 million yen ($17,000), around 20% lower than today's starting price.

That would make an electric Nissan as cheap as the company's gasoline counterparts, something Nissan hopes will set it apart from rival auto groups...

Under the new strategy, Renault and Mitsubishi, new to the Nissan alliance, in 2018 will no longer develop their own electric car platforms and instead exclusively use the Leaf platform.

The companies also plan to share other parts in their respective electric vehicles, including batteries, which represent about 40% of the overall weight of an electric car, motors and inverters so that the companies can lower costs by making joint purchases from common suppliers...

While they will use the same platforms, Renault, Nissan and Mitsubishi Motors will come up with their own designs and do their own branding...
Click to expand...
http://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Companies/Nissan-eyes-mass-producing-17-000-electric-car?page=1

In a more wide-ranging interview of CG, it also sounds like Mitsubishi will be allowed to lead development of PHEV technology, which will be available in M, N (and R ?) vehicles

Mitsubishi Motors, Nissan to share all EV tech: Ghosn

...Q: What are Mitsubishi Motors' strengths in terms of electric cars?

A: I think the main strength is that they have a plug-in hybrid ready. This is an asset. We were planning to have a plug-in hybrid, but I stopped the plug-in hybrid inside the alliance and asked our engineers to use the plug-in hybrid technology of Mitsubishi, which is a win-win -- so we don't duplicate the work. And on top of this, the plug-in hybrid technology of Mitsubishi will have a bigger scale, which should make it more competitive...

Q: Will we see a plug-in hybrid from Nissan in the near future?

A: Yes. But obviously you take the technology, then ... the evolutions will be shared among the different companies. You know, [engineers] are very expensive. [Without sharing], you would have Mitsubishi engineering doing its own solution and Nissan engineering doing its own solution. And this is not in the best interest of the consumer. The best [thing for] the consumer is that companies pool their efforts.

This is the most efficient way, but this requires a lot of discipline inside the alliance. And that's what we want to do -- to allow the company to have lots of products and lots of technology, and [to] concentrate their efforts on selling and developing their business...
Click to expand...
http://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Companies/Mitsubishi-Motors-Nissan-to-share-all-EV-tech-Ghosn?page=1
 
We'll see.
Repackaging of old tech in a cheaper configuration is a tried and true marketing approach but I'll be disappointed if that is all the alliance comes up with.
 
LeftieBiker said:
Can you say "iMiev"? ;-)
Click to expand...
The critical question is whether you'll be able to say "Civic" or "Corolla" with a straight face. PHEVs/ BEVs need to be able to accomplish that at a similar price to achieve mass acceptance. The Prius Prime/C-Max Energi have moved several thousand steps closer.
 
GRA said:
The critical question is whether you'll be able to say "Civic" or "Corolla" with a straight face. PHEVs/ BEVs need to be able to accomplish that at a similar price to achieve mass acceptance. The Prius Prime/C-Max Energi have moved several thousand steps closer.
Click to expand...
I think you nailed it. If NRM could bring a Civic / Corolla size product to market, with at least the 30kWh battery for $24.5K ($17k after the tax credit), that would be an important step for the market. Even better if they could offer a 3 door version - a perfect little commuter car. Assuming that Leaf 2.0 starts with 30kWh / 42kWh options and then changes to 42kWh / 60kWh option in 2018, NRM would have 100-mile / 150-mile / 225-mile options available.
 
I am swapping out my wife's Honda Fit for a LEAF in the coming days because I am an EV fan, but my wife thinks I am being irrational. The Fit was cheap to buy, is cheap to run, nice to drive, has unlimited range, will last a long, long time, and is super reliable. Moreover, it is a known quantity she does not have to learn, and it does not have any quirks she is afraid will trip her up. Oh, and it doesn't have a traction battery she has to pamper in hopes of running the car 5+ years.

Europe may be a different story due to the high price of petrol and a much better public system for long extra-urban travel but in the US NIssan is picking an uphill battle from the start, now without government support.
 
I am swapping out my wife's Honda Fit for a LEAF in the coming days because I am an EV fan, but my wife thinks I am being irrational. The Fit was cheap to buy, is cheap to run, nice to drive, has unlimited range, will last a long, long time, and is super reliable. Moreover, it is a known quantity she does not have to learn, and it does not have any quirks she is afraid will trip her up. Oh, and it doesn't have a traction battery she has to pamper in hopes of running the car 5+ years.
Click to expand...


A bit off-topic, but why on earth is this your decision, and not hers...?
 
LeftieBiker said:
I am swapping out my wife's Honda Fit for a LEAF in the coming days because I am an EV fan, but my wife thinks I am being irrational. The Fit was cheap to buy, is cheap to run, nice to drive, has unlimited range, will last a long, long time, and is super reliable. Moreover, it is a known quantity she does not have to learn, and it does not have any quirks she is afraid will trip her up. Oh, and it doesn't have a traction battery she has to pamper in hopes of running the car 5+ years.
Click to expand...


A bit off-topic, but why on earth is this your decision, and not hers...?
Click to expand...
As much as I love my LEAF, someone is going to be very happy to get that Honda Fit. I find driving the LEAF occasionally an adventure... Less than an ICE for sure...
 
LeftieBiker said:
I am swapping out my wife's Honda Fit for a LEAF in the coming days because I am an EV fan, but my wife thinks I am being irrational. The Fit was cheap to buy, is cheap to run, nice to drive, has unlimited range, will last a long, long time, and is super reliable. Moreover, it is a known quantity she does not have to learn, and it does not have any quirks she is afraid will trip her up. Oh, and it doesn't have a traction battery she has to pamper in hopes of running the car 5+ years.
Click to expand...
A bit off-topic, but why on earth is this your decision, and not hers...?
Click to expand...

A more accurate interpretation would be that I sold her on the idea. Barely.

We have a second car that is 'mine' she can always confiscate if the LEAF is a flop, and she has a say about that car too.
 
SageBrush said:
A more accurate interpretation would be that I sold her on the idea. Barely.

We have a second car that is 'mine' she can always confiscate if the LEAF is a flop, and she has a say about that car too.
Click to expand...
Just make sure not to jeopardize the Tesla Model 3 that you've indicated elsewhere you've reserved! My wife has never been a fan of our LEAF's limited range and slow charging, at least for the price we paid in 2011. The LEAF was not the smoothest introduction to EVs for her. (Thankfully, she loves our recently purchased, pre-owned Tesla.) She would have been much more content if we had purchased our LEAF used at a great discount, cheaper than a comparable ICE economy car. I suppose it's a matter of expectations. People paying $20K+ (net) for a car typically expect more flexibility than the LEAF delivers.

Without government incentives, and with low gasoline prices, I'm not even sure there's much of a market in North America for a $17K small-battery BEV; it'll need to be super cheap to have a significant impact. Such is the unfortunate reality of our failure in the US to put a fair price on carbon emissions. (Canada seems to be moving ahead of us in that respect.)
 
abasile said:
SageBrush said:
A more accurate interpretation would be that I sold her on the idea. Barely.

We have a second car that is 'mine' she can always confiscate if the LEAF is a flop, and she has a say about that car too.
Click to expand...
Just make sure not to jeopardize the Tesla Model 3 that you've indicated elsewhere you've reserved! My wife has never been a fan of our LEAF's limited range and slow charging, at least for the price we paid in 2011. The LEAF was not the smoothest introduction to EVs for her. (Thankfully, she loves our recently purchased, pre-owned Tesla.) She would have been much more content if we had purchased our LEAF used at a great discount, cheaper than a comparable ICE economy car. I suppose it's a matter of expectations. People paying $20K+ (net) for a car typically expect more flexibility than the LEAF delivers.

Without government incentives, and with low gasoline prices, I'm not even sure there's much of a market in North America for a $17K small-battery BEV; it'll need to be super cheap to have a significant impact. Such is the unfortunate reality of our failure in the US to put a fair price on carbon emissions. (Canada seems to be moving ahead of us in that respect.)
Click to expand...
For sure, on all points !

I expect to end up with money in my pocket after I sell the Fit, so that was never a point against the LEAF. Even so, since she views the LEAF as in some ways inferior to the Fit the money savings was not a strong argument and it shows just how much .... inertia ... an inexpensive EV is going to have to surmount to compete in the economy car market. I imagine my wife represents a big swath of people who are not against EVs but are not particularly interested in being inconvenienced by them either.

The biggest selling point for her in favor of the EV was being able to pre-condition the car. ICE can do that too, but I frown on the behavior in a regular car.
 
I'm not sure if this is good news for our hopes for a next-generation Leaf. We all know that the 2017 Leaf cannot compete against the 2017 Bolt, at least at each's respective MSRP. It sounds like rather than take on the Bolt head-on, for now Nissan is going to just lower the price. I guess if that helps the market, so be it. But it dampens my hopes for a 60kWh 2018 Leaf. Tesla might beat them to market with the Model III after all!
 
As various x prize cars have shown A 200 mile range ev car is achievable at highway speed with a 28kwhr battery.

It's possible Nissan might pull a Honda and offer different body styles including one that goes 200 miles on the same battery.

To me this would be a bigger win than just stuffing a bigger battery in there.

It would also cut the price per mile in half
 
GetOffYourGas said:
Tesla might beat them to market with the Model III after all!
Click to expand...
But will Tesla beat them to market with a car you don't have to be on a list to get?
Based on the number of signups Tesla has and the time it will take them to ramp up, general availability for the Model 3 might still be out there a bit.. (Which is good news for Tesla... If you can sell more cars than you can make, that means you are selling cars.. ;-) )

desiv
 
desiv said:
GetOffYourGas said:
Tesla might beat them to market with the Model III after all!
Click to expand...
But will Tesla beat them to market with a car you don't have to be on a list to get?
Based on the number of signups Tesla has and the time it will take them to ramp up, general availability for the Model 3 might still be out there a bit.. (Which is good news for Tesla... If you can sell more cars than you can make, that means you are selling cars.. ;-) )

desiv
Click to expand...

Probably not. In fact, most likely Nissan will still win this race, IMHO. But by focusing on lower-priced cars, they are giving Tesla a fighting chance. In the meantime, Chevy sells as many Bolts as they want to, at MSRP.
 
This could be the way to compete with the M3. Make a car that sells after tax rebates for less than any other car. If produced in enough volume, it could be a profitable hit!
 

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