2012 BYD e6 Electric Crossover, $35k, 200-Mile Range? huh?

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cdub

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http://www.greencarreports.com/blog/1053395_2012-byd-e6-electric-crossover-to-cost-35000-200-mile-range
Later today at the Detroit Auto Show, Chinese carmaker BYD will take the wraps off a new incarnation of the e6 crossover it's shown twice before.
This time, however, it comes with an upgraded interior, a more powerful drive motor, and a price: $35,000 before incentives. The company hopes to offer its 2012 BYD e6 S (for 'Sport') for sale in selected U.S. markets toward the end of this year.
$2,220 more than Leaf, twice the range
The price of $35,000, first reported on Plug-In Cars, is just $2,220 more than a 2011 Nissan Leaf compact hatchback, which retails for $32,780, and considerably less than the $41,000 Chevy Volt.
More significant, the BYD e6 S will have a range of roughly 200 miles--perhaps more--from its 60-kilowatt-hour lithium-ion battery pack. That's twice the Leaf's range, from a battery pack holding more than 2.5 times as much energy.

Huh? How are they doing that price? Are they subsidized by the Chinese government and losing 20k per car? My bet is yes.

I'd never buy a car from China. Sorry. Chinese made goods have a bad taste to them with all of the cheap toys and crap we have going on here.

Maybe it's a good car - who knows - but it has a LOT ... scratch that.. an almost INSURMOUNTABLE issue to overcome in consumer's minds.
 
Some factors here that give BYD a 'plus' in my view. First - they make their own batteries in-house. Their first business is laptop and cell-phone batteries - and they are the supplier to many (most?) cell-phone manufacturers. Second - they've gotten the attention - and a significant number of dollars - from Warren Buffet. Anyone that cares about how to invest knows that the 'Oracle of Omaha' is a very deep 'value investor' - and will not buy into a company unless it's strong and has a very strong up side. Buffet buys for the long haul - he almost never sells any investment.

A data point... BYD started working on a PHEV AFTER GM started on the Volt. BYD brought their car to market two years before GM, with a lower price tag and twice the EV-only range. ;)
 
cdub said:
http://www.greencarreports.com/blog/1053395_2012-byd-e6-electric-crossover-to-cost-35000-200-mile-range
Later today at the Detroit Auto Show, Chinese carmaker BYD will take the wraps off a new incarnation of the e6 crossover it's shown twice before.
This time, however, it comes with an upgraded interior, a more powerful drive motor, and a price: $35,000 before incentives. The company hopes to offer its 2012 BYD e6 S (for 'Sport') for sale in selected U.S. markets toward the end of this year.
$2,220 more than Leaf, twice the range
The price of $35,000, first reported on Plug-In Cars, is just $2,220 more than a 2011 Nissan Leaf compact hatchback, which retails for $32,780, and considerably less than the $41,000 Chevy Volt.
More significant, the BYD e6 S will have a range of roughly 200 miles--perhaps more--from its 60-kilowatt-hour lithium-ion battery pack. That's twice the Leaf's range, from a battery pack holding more than 2.5 times as much energy.
Huh? How are they doing that price? Are they subsidized by the Chinese government and losing 20k per car? My bet is yes.

I'd never buy a car from China. Sorry. Chinese made goods have a bad taste to them with all of the cheap toys and crap we have going on here.

Maybe it's a good car - who knows - but it has a LOT ... scratch that.. an almost INSURMOUNTABLE issue to overcome in consumer's minds.
Change "China" to Germany/Japan/Korea, 50/40/20 years ago and you state the shortsighted wisdom of the day. Automakers dismiss China at their peril.
 
Well, we have to see how they execute on this. This is not the first year they are promising to bring an EV.

I won't be the first to buy, though. They will have to start small and struggle their way up - just like most recently Hyundai did.
 
cdub said:
Chinese made goods have a bad taste to them with all of the cheap toys and crap we have going on here.

Um, there is plenty of stuff that's made on home soil is crap, while plenty of stuff from China that's above and beyond in terms of quality. Apple products come to mind here...
 
KeiJidosha said:
Change "China" to Germany/Japan/Korea, 50/40/20 years ago and you state the shortsighted wisdom of the day. Automakers dismiss China at their peril.

Well said. Purchase today? Maybe not. But look where Hyundai is today vs. 1986. 1986: Excel=throwaway car. 2011: Equus=highline contender.
 
IBELEAF said:
cdub said:
Chinese made goods have a bad taste to them with all of the cheap toys and crap we have going on here.

Um, there is plenty of stuff that's made on home soil is crap, while plenty of stuff from China that's above and beyond in terms of quality. Apple products come to mind here...
True. China makes products on contract. If a product is cr*ppy blame the walmarts and bestbuys who get them made there.

In general, American retailers (and traders) ask for very cheap products (and then sell it here for a very large % profit). Those who ask for high quality products and pay the right amount, get high quality products.

But, since we don't know and buy any Chinese branded products (except Lenovo?), BYD will have to overcome a huge perception problem.
 
First, no one should under estimate the Chinese for their ability to produce cars.. they make Mercedes and BMW cars there and their products are looking pretty modern. However, its one thing to know that they will be a player in the future and quite another to buy a BYD in 2012. There is no way they can be as reliable or as well engineered. The company is only 7 years old. Their total annual production is under 1 million units. They've never built an electric vehicle, their plug-in in hybrid has been out for 13 months.

The consider this, if they continue to use the LiFePO4 batteries a 60kWh pack will weigh over 1300 pounds. That's going to be one heavy vehicle.

Of course, if you disagree you can always "Build Your Dreams"
 
I take the BYD E6 very seriously.

As for the delay, last year at this time based on statements by Nissan, I was convinced that the very latest that I would be driving a Leaf was last December. As late as October or November Nissan Customer Service told me that my most likely delivery date was March. Now with the the 4-7 month statement, I am hoping for delivery by the end of June.

As for quality, China has a high speed rail system that we can only dream about, the world's fastest computer, and deepest diving sea vehicle. I checked all the computer equipment that I am using to post this message, computer, monitor, router, etc. and it is all made in China. America's richest family got to be that by running a Chinese outlet store which would not be such a success if they sold cheap junk. BYD employs over 30,000 engineers who are selected from the best of China's engineering schools.

If the E6 meets specs, my Leaf will be obsolete within six months of delivery. A 200 mile range with quick charge capability makes long distance travel by electric car feasible. Two years from today, it is possible that even the most reluctant may concede that the days of the ICE are over. BYD has also stated that it is talking to other manufacturers about licensing its battery technology. Should this happen, in two years before the next presidential election, the market may be flooded with cheaper and better electric cars.

Yes, I take BYD very seriously.
 
SteveInSeattle said:
The consider this, if they continue to use the LiFePO4 batteries a 60kWh pack will weigh over 1300 pounds. That's going to be one heavy vehicle.

LiFe batteries are very tough and durable.. definitely no liquid cooling system needed. In any case did you think you could get 200 miles of range for no weight gain?.
 
garygid said:
I heard ... that WB put in $20 million for 10% of the company.
A company in Mr. Buffett's empire did invest $20 million. 11.6 times over...the first time!

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/warren-buffett-looks-to-electric-car-in-byd-stake
MidAmerican, which is 87.4%-held by Berkshire Hathaway (BRK.A 119,584, +26.01, +0.02%) (BRK.B 79.77, +0.12, +0.15%) , said on Sept. 27 it would buy 225 million shares of BYD, equivalent to a 10% stake, for HK$1.8 billion ($231.6 million). Berkshire Hathaway is the Omaha investment run by Buffett, holding stakes in insurance and finance, utilities and energy, manufacturing retailing and services.
How'd that investment work for him?

http://www.treehugger.com/files/200...ic-cars-plug-in-hybrids-investment-profit.php
Last fall, Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway bought a 10% stake in Chinese electric car maker BYD last fall (and is reported to have wanted more than 10%), and despite the huge slowdown of the world economy since then and the big slump in car sales, BYD's share has increased about fivefold in value at the Hong Kong stock exchange. This gives Mr. Buffett a cool $1 billion in paper profits (it's a "paper profit" because he hasn't sold his stake). But that's not all, Buffett is now putting more cash in BYD. ... According to Bloomberg: "Berkshire’s MidAmerican Energy Holdings Co. unit agreed to buy 225 million new shares of BYD for HK$8 apiece. That stock now has a market value of HK$9.66 billion ($1.25 billion), based on today’s closing price. Buffett will pay HK$1.8 billion."
Warren Buffett hasn't just seen the car of the future, he's sitting in the driver's seat.
http://money.cnn.com/2009/04/13/technology/gunther_electric.fortune/
But Buffett, who is 78, was intrigued by Munger's description of the entrepreneur behind BYD, a man named Wang Chuan-Fu, whom he had met through a mutual friend. "This guy," Munger tells Fortune, "is a combination of Thomas Edison and Jack Welch - something like Edison in solving technical problems, and something like Welch in getting done what he needs to do. I have never seen anything like it."
 
Herm said:
SteveInSeattle said:
The consider this, if they continue to use the LiFePO4 batteries a 60kWh pack will weigh over 1300 pounds. That's going to be one heavy vehicle.
LiFe batteries are very tough and durable.. definitely no liquid cooling system needed. In any case did you think you could get 200 miles of range for no weight gain?.
BYD is the world's largest manufacturer of cell phone batteries. All the batteries listed on their web site are LiPo/LiCo. I don't believe the company makes LiFePO4. Think 'Tesla pack' here...
http://bydit.com/doce/products/Li-EnergyProducts/
 
There were many early reports stating iron-phosphate chemistry, which I assume means LiFePO4 batteries, but that may be a patented trademarked name. We do know those chemicals are about dirt cheap and are cost leaders in the battery market right now.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2008/04/byd-introduces.html

http://money.cnn.com/2009/04/13/technology/gunther_electric.fortune/index.htm
 
Desertstraw said:
I take the BYD E6 very seriously.

As for the delay, last year at this time based on statements by Nissan, I was convinced that the very latest that I would be driving a Leaf was last December. As late as October or November Nissan Customer Service told me that my most likely delivery date was March. Now with the the 4-7 month statement, I am hoping for delivery by the end of June.

As for quality, China has a high speed rail system that we can only dream about, the world's fastest computer, and deepest diving sea vehicle. I checked all the computer equipment that I am using to post this message, computer, monitor, router, etc. and it is all made in China. America's richest family got to be that by running a Chinese outlet store which would not be such a success if they sold cheap junk. BYD employs over 30,000 engineers who are selected from the best of China's engineering schools.

If the E6 meets specs, my Leaf will be obsolete within six months of delivery. A 200 mile range with quick charge capability makes long distance travel by electric car feasible. Two years from today, it is possible that even the most reluctant may concede that the days of the ICE are over. BYD has also stated that it is talking to other manufacturers about licensing its battery technology. Should this happen, in two years before the next presidential election, the market may be flooded with cheaper and better electric cars.

Yes, I take BYD very seriously.


No matter how great it may be the interior and exterior I have seen so far is as bad and boring as it gets. Perhaps they should fire a few engineers and hire some Italian designers. I think they would sell FAR more EVs that way even with half the range.
 
EVDRIVER said:
No matter how great it may be the interior and exterior I have seen so far is as bad and boring as it gets. Perhaps they should fire a few engineers and hire some Italian designers. I think they would sell FAR more EVs that way even with half the range.

Or buy an Italian design company like the Tatas did ...

http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/business/tata-motors-acquires-italian-car-design-firm_100439006.html

Mumbai, Oct 4 (IANS) Tata Motors announced Monday that it has acquired 80 percent stake in Trilix Srl, Turin, an Italian design and engineering company, for 1.85 million euros.

The acquisition is in line with Tata Motors’ objective to enhance its styling and design capabilities to global standards, a spokesman said.
...
Trilix Srl offers design and engineering services in the automotive sector, specifically related to styling, architecture, packaging, surfacing, macro and micro feasibility, and detailed engineering development.
 
EVDRIVER said:
No matter how great it may be the interior and exterior I have seen so far is as bad and boring as it gets. Perhaps they should fire a few engineers and hire some Italian designers. I think they would sell FAR more EVs that way even with half the range.

Roj - how many Italian designers does it take to make a lightweight EV with a 200 mile range?

Frankly - the Think City is more than fine for local transportation. It's the 'design' twaddle that leads to EV-Bloat. ;)
 
i think BYD will enjoy great success and that is a good thing. any EV option that comes out is a good thing and will only create competition which will lower the price of vehicles to come (or keep them the same while the cost of gasoline cars escalate).

that is one of the biggest reasons i am leasing. because it gets me into an EV now because i am tired of waiting and BYD=wait. not an option and i dont care if they claim 500 miles. to me its nothing more than a Volt at $25,000 and we all know what happened with that.

what i would like to do in 3 years is buy my 2011 Leaf at what i expect to be much lower than market value and add a second EV that gets 250 mile range...but we will see
 
i think BYD will enjoy great success and that is a good thing. any EV option that comes out is a good thing and will only create competition which will lower the price of vehicles to come (or keep them the same while the cost of gasoline cars escalate).

that is one of the biggest reasons i am leasing. because it gets me into an EV now because i am tired of waiting and BYD=wait. not an option and i dont care if they claim 500 miles. to me its nothing more than a Volt at $25,000 and we all know what happened with that.

what i would like to do in 3 years is buy my 2011 Leaf at what i expect to be much lower than market value and add a second EV that gets 250 mile range...but we will see
 
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