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Re: Jaguar I-PACE BESUV available 2018

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:52 am
by edatoakrun
RL likes it, of course.

He also promises a follow-up video with charging times and a range report, shortly.

Jaguar I-Pace, off road and on track | Fully Charged

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jj_w1P ... e=youtu.be

Re: Jaguar I-PACE BESUV available 2018

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:03 pm
by GRA
edatoakrun wrote:Glad to see Jaguar gets it, that it is stupid to limit BEVs to a single axle for drive and regen.

Within a few years, I expect 2WD will be limited to only the cheapest of entry-level BEVs.

Maybe, but I doubt it. Unless you're pushing a car to its limits, there's simply no need for that level of traction and accel, and that means you can do without the added cost, weight, space* and added maintenance of two motors. Even a Bolt has far more acceleration than is needed for regular driving, and being FWD you're getting most of the regen. I expect any worries about efficiency will be handled more simply, by bigger batteries as they become cheaper, and cars will be a mix of FWD, RWD or AWD, as now.

*Barring wheel or hub motors.

Re: Jaguar I-PACE BESUV available 2018

Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:11 am
by arnis
Correct. It is actually stupid to have two motors instead of one. If the second one is never actually necessary for anything.
Of course having motor in the rear is the correct placement as front axle has excessive loads when steering (and accelerating/regen).

Second motor is only and only for performance in excessive scenarios. Not anything that should ever be used in tight city traffic.

Re: Jaguar I-PACE BESUV available 2018

Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:57 pm
by smkettner
I agree with a little less performance would be OK. Especially if it gave more range. Although if just a single motor I would definitely want rear drive after having the RAV4-EV. Maybe never for Jaguar but for some family sedans I could see 2WD as a popular choice.

Re: Jaguar I-PACE BESUV available 2018

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:38 am
by SageBrush
240 mile range
No fast charging network to speak of

= a fancy GM Bolt for the well to do;
a nice car to place in that 3rd or 4rth garage space

Re: Jaguar I-PACE BESUV available 2018

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:19 am
by edatoakrun
Jaguar promo video showing some of the convenience features:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6usAIJm9weg

GRA wrote:
edatoakrun wrote:Glad to see Jaguar gets it, that it is stupid to limit BEVs to a single axle for drive and regen.

Within a few years, I expect 2WD will be limited to only the cheapest of entry-level BEVs.

Maybe, but I doubt it. Unless you're pushing a car to its limits, there's simply no need for that level of traction and accel, and that means you can do without the added cost, weight, space* and added maintenance of two motors...

BEV motors require virtually no maintenance (TSLA designs to date, excepted).

The added cost, weight and space of manufacturing an AWD BEV is minor in comparison to that required for ICEVs, yet if you look around the mix of private vehicles sold in a region like yours, where the average benefits of AWD are very slight, a huge proportion of buyer (including yourself, IIRC) opt for AWD.

In terms of total operating cost, AWD BEVs may actually be lower than 2WD versions, due to the added efficiency of higher fraction of deceleration energy recovery through regenerative braking, and the efficiency gains from having two gear ratios available, from using different final drive ratios on each wheel pair.

As electricity prices rise in the future as we phase out cheap fossil-fuel generation, and the AWD hardware costs decline, the cost/benefit ratio should increasingly improve for AWD BEVs, moving further and further down the price range for private vehicle sales.

Now we may see emerging classes of very low cost vehicles and/or fleet vehicles which replace private vehicles that, immune from buyers irrational preferences for AWD, that will be largely 2WD.

From suburban/urban cabs to long-distance BEVs limited to relatively constant high speeds on well-maintained highways, there may eventually be many new types of BEVs using only one pair of drive wheels.

Re: Jaguar I-PACE BESUV available 2018

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:03 am
by EVDRIVER
arnis wrote:Correct. It is actually stupid to have two motors instead of one. If the second one is never actually necessary for anything.
Of course having motor in the rear is the correct placement as front axle has excessive loads when steering (and accelerating/regen).

Second motor is only and only for performance in excessive scenarios. Not anything that should ever be used in tight city traffic.


Unless you live in an area with snow or poor roads. It also provides better handling, superior traction on wet roads, etc. There is a reason Audi AWD was so popular. I have never slipped a wheel in my S, not once. I have driven on roads where I never could and it has kept me from getting stuck on more than one occasion. I would never buy a 2WD car again as the benefits of AWD are great. In hilly areas turning up a hill all my cars would loose traction on the rear wheel on the S it's impossible, the difference is night and day.

Re: Jaguar I-PACE BESUV available 2018

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:11 am
by SageBrush
EVDRIVER wrote:
arnis wrote:Correct. It is actually stupid to have two motors instead of one. If the second one is never actually necessary for anything.
Of course having motor in the rear is the correct placement as front axle has excessive loads when steering (and accelerating/regen).

Second motor is only and only for performance in excessive scenarios. Not anything that should ever be used in tight city traffic.


Unless you live in an area with snow or poor roads. It also provides better handling, superior traction on wet roads, etc. There is a reason Audi AWD was so popular. I have never slipped a wheel in my S, not once. I have driven on roads where I never could and it has kept me from getting stuck on more than one occasion. I would never buy a 2WD car again as the benefits of AWD are great. In hilly areas turning up a hill all my cars would loose traction on the rear wheel on the S it's impossible, the difference is night and day.

Are your comments with winter tyres ?

Factory tires.

Re: Jaguar I-PACE BESUV available 2018

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:34 am
by Lambtron
As electricity prices rise in the future as we phase out cheap fossil-fuel generation, and the AWD hardware costs decline, the cost/benefit ratio should increasingly improve for AWD BEVs, moving further and further down the price range for private vehicle sales.

Now we may see emerging classes of very low cost vehicles and/or fleet vehicles which replace private vehicles that, immune from buyers irrational preferences for AWD, that will be largely 2WD.


You're dreaming. I've never seen the price of anything come down due to hardware costs declining let alone any other drop in manufacturing. If that were the case, my 2011 leaf battery would not be increasing in price even though the KWH cost to manufacture has decreased. Prices only rise on everything.

Re: Jaguar I-PACE BESUV available 2018

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:45 pm
by EVDRIVER
The LEAF battery cost will go up becase it will be legacy and it will cost more to produce.