TonyWilliams wrote: GRA wrote:
I'd think this is a good match for BEV buses, given the slow speeds, single flat route and limited distance covered, as well as the generally warm temps in the months the shuttles are operating. Always assuming they have enough range, or can take time to charge at the Visitor Center and/or Zion Lodge. Average headways are apparently 15 minutes, less during peak, and more outside of it. route shown here: https://www.nps.gov/zion/planyourvisit/ ... 16-Web.pdf
Might work for Yosemite Valley Shuttles too, although maybe not the Tioga Road or Glacier Pt./Badger Pass ones. Those have been using HEV shuttles for some years, so maybe FCEVs are the way to go there.
Wow, talk about a lot of FUD. EVs are not restricted to flat roadways, over short distance or warm temps. With the exception of the warm temperature issue, any vehicle will consume more energy regardless of the energy source
if it is operated a longer distance over hilly you terrain.
The temperature issues can be mitigated by any power source that can create heat efficiently. That could even be hydrogen, however some type of biofuel or alcohol is probably more logical.
There is no place in Yosemite park that an electric powered vehicle can't go. When considering all the costs to operate a hydrogen powered vehicle versus an electric powered vehicle, I'm confident the EV will win every time. BYD, alone, has sold more EV buses than all the hydrogen cars and buses in the entire world multiplied by an order of magnitude.
For the record, there is not a single data point of hydrogen that cannot be exceeded by an EV bus, and that includes a quick refueling.
The question, as always, Tony, is how well each matches up with the usage patterns and TCO. Yes, BEV buses could be used on the more mountainous routes in Yosemite, but probably not given the headways, distances and unwillingness of the park service to allow major upgrades of the electrical system for charging away from the Valley. Installing an H2 tank is probably a lot easier, as it can more easily be hidden, and the buses would only need to fill up once per day. If BEV buses can do the job at the lowest cost, I say bring 'em on, but knowing what I know of Park Service ideology, I suspect given current tech they may be a poor fit for those types of routes. However, that's why they're doing a usage study in Zion, to see which EV tech's the best fit, and it should be more or less directly applicable to Yosemite Valley shuttle and tour bus routes with some adjustment for winter temps, as Yosemite Valley shuttles run year-round.
TonyWilliams wrote:For the record, there is not a single data point of hydrogen that cannot be exceeded by an EV bus, and that includes a quick refueling.
Oh come now. Where's the multi-megawatt charger that can do this, and the bus battery that could accept it? If 5 kg. 700 bar fills can be accomplished in three minutes, as they're required to demonstrate to be certified, that's 5 x 33.7 kWhe = 168.5 kWhe / 3 = 56.2 kWhe/minute. The chargers going to be used in Switzerland have a maximum rate of 600kW, or 10 kWh/minute assuming no taper. The efficiency difference is nowhere near 5.6 times.