Battery-electric bus discussion

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RegGuheert

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 19, 2012
Messages
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Location
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It seems that battery-electric buses are starting to come out of the woodwork and are being embraced by many municipalities around the world. Rather than discussing these in the hydrogen thread, I thought it would make sense to discuss battery electric buses in their own thread.

Proterra:

Electric bus made by ex-Tesla employee drives 258 miles on a single charge
TreeHugger.com said:
This milestone is important because once you pass the average driving range needed in a day by a bus, with a margin of safety on top, electric buses become ready for the big time:
Based on these test results, Proterra predicts its ten pack XR configuration (321kWh) will achieve 300 miles on a single charge. According to available General Transit Feed Specification (GTFS) data, typical urban and rural bus routes in the United States run less than 200 miles a day, bringing most routes within reach of Proterra’s current technology.
Part of the reason why the Proterra buses are doing this well is that they aren't just regular buses modified to be electric:
“The purpose-driven Catalyst design affords the best efficiency rating ever for a 40-foot transit bus, at 22 MPG equivalent,” said John Sleconich, Chief Engineer at Proterra. “Proterra buses are the only mass transit vehicle built from the ground up as an electric vehicle. With a unique aerodynamic body made from carbon fiber and advanced composite materials, we are able to reduce mass for maximum efficiency.”
For reference, here is the datasheet for the Proterra Catalyst Electric Bus.
 
DNAinaGoodWay said:
Worcester, MA's Regional Transit Authority has 6 Proterras. Really nice change from the the noisy, smelly diesels.
According to this article, it appears that Worcester has the 100-kWh quick-charge version of the Proterra buses. I think the new high-capacity, NMC-based versions are just now being finalized and those will enter service (somewhere) in the very near future. I do think the high-battery-capacity version of the bus will be the one that nearly every municipality will prefer. It should be comparably-priced while allowing more buses to charge simultaneously at nighttime when most are not in service. The NMC batteries should also last significantly longer.

I'm becoming more-and-more convinced that NMC is THE Li-ion battery technology which will propel BEVs out of niche markets and into widespread adoption. We see it in the new LEAF as well as in this new version of the Proterra bus. In the bus arena, if BEVs can meet all of the rourte requirements while simultaneously lowering the total cost of ownership as well as providing all of the other obvious benefits of a BEV, then it seems clear that the diesels and natural gas incumbents will be replaced by BEVs at their EOL. As mentioned elsewhere, I see the newest, highest-capacity buses going on the longest routes while the older buses are used on progressively-shorter routes as their batteries degrade, thus giving the longest-possible battery life. That will be a major cost driver, but it should come down steadily as the technology matures.

BTW DNAinaGoodWay, have you ridden on one of the Worcester Proterra buses? If so, what was it like. Tony tells us that the electric buses in London are almost as noisy and rattly as their diesel counterparts.
 
DNAinaGoodWay said:
Nope, haven't ridden a bus in my hometown in years. But probably most buses are noisy rattlers on the inside. Nature of the beast.
Perhaps, but I think by redesigning their bus from the ground up, Proterra may have been able to eliminate some of the NVH associated with the drivetrain and elsewhere. For instance, they use a purpose-designed two-speed transmission in their buses. In the video at their main webpage at the 1:20 mark, they claim theirs (the quick-charge version) is the lightest and quietest bus on the market at 57 dB. I don't know if that is inside or outside and how it is measured, but it is claimed to be an improvement.
 
DNAinaGoodWay said:
Nope, haven't ridden a bus in my hometown in years. But probably most buses are noisy rattlers on the inside. Nature of the beast.

Electric buses would be less fatiguing to ride and drive with a smooth electric drivetrain. The mall manager had to build a concrete slab for the bus because asphalt would tear up with a bus idling on it.

Even VW could not write some software to make diesels smooth :D
 
DanCar linked this article in another thread: ABB announced their new quick-charge stations at Busworld 2015:
ABB said:
ABB, the leading power and automation technology group, announced today that it introduces an automated fast charging system which allows electric city buses to drive 24/7, thus enabling true zero emission bus transport in cities. With its automated rooftop connection and a typical charge time of 4–6 minutes, the system can easily be integrated in existing bus lines by installing fast chargers at end points, terminals, depots and/or intermediate stops. The modular design offering 150 kW, 300 kW or 450 kW of charging power provides any city bus with enough energy in only a few minutes to run its inner-city route continuously throughout the day.
Personally, I'm not convinced that quick-charging will win out over high-capacity batteries for BEV city buses. Even though the quick-charge approach should make the buses lighter, a much larger percentage of the charging will occur during the daytime when peak electrical demand occurs. Long-range BEV buses have the benefit of being charged overnight when there is less electrical load. Of course initially both types will find service until operators can decide which approach suits their municipality best.

In the future there may be a large amount of PV power on the grid, which may make daytime (quick) charging more attractive at that time.
 
RegGuheert said:
DanCar linked this article in another thread: ABB announced their new quick-charge stations at Busworld 2015:
ABB said:
ABB, the leading power and automation technology group, announced today that it introduces an automated fast charging system which allows electric city buses to drive 24/7, thus enabling true zero emission bus transport in cities. With its automated rooftop connection and a typical charge time of 4–6 minutes, the system can easily be integrated in existing bus lines by installing fast chargers at end points, terminals, depots and/or intermediate stops. The modular design offering 150 kW, 300 kW or 450 kW of charging power provides any city bus with enough energy in only a few minutes to run its inner-city route continuously throughout the day.
Personally, I'm not convinced that quick-charging will win out over high-capacity batteries for BEV city buses. Even though the quick-charge approach should make the buses lighter, a much larger percentage of the charging will occur during the daytime when peak electrical demand occurs. Long-range BEV buses have the benefit of being charged overnight when there is less electrical load. Of course initially both types will find service until operators can decide which approach suits their municipality best.

In the future there may be a large amount of PV power on the grid, which may make daytime (quick) charging more attractive at that time.
I'm with you, and I'd add operational reliability issues - if one enroute site is down, you need to have enough battery storage to bypass it and get to the next, which decreases the whole cost advantage of the smaller battery. Of course, if the power at the bus barn goes down, every bus is screwed, but that should be a lot less common as you can have onsite genset (fuel cell?) backup. This point also favors FCEV buses rather than BEVs in areas with frequent outages, but that decision will ultimately come down to overall cost, once BEV buses have the necessary range to serve all the required routes. To minimize disaster-related curtailment it's useful to have at least two full days of operating range autonomy onboard regardless of the source, but that raises cost, space/weight issues.
 
Our local transit agency (King County - Metro Transit) is going to be trying out a few of the fast-charge Proterras with the first one set to arrive before the end of this year. Benefits of the quick-charge buses as I see them include:
a) Less weight - Heavy buses tear up the pavement not only on public streets, but also at the bus maintenance facilities. There's also implications for the maintenance shop needing to have the appropriate hoists for dealing with the heavier buses & batteries. Oh, and now that I think of it, safety might also be affected as weight relates to stopping distances, impact damage, etc.
b) Cheaper infrastructure - I'm guessing that it's easier to put in a couple dozen fast charge stations out and about (probably fed by different substations, if you want to talk about resiliency) than it is to put in a few hundred overnight charging stations at a maintenance base (a typical base around here has 200-300 buses). Come to think of it, this is probably a pretty big factor.
On the downside, there's the possibility of shorter battery life expectancy and the problem of a downed/damaged quick-charge station really messing up a bus route. This is where I really like the battery/electric trolleys which run on overhead wire most of the time but can go off-wire for some miles.

Admittedly, here in the northwest we don't have time-of-day based electrical rates, so the math might work out different in other areas...
 
TLeaf said:
Our local transit agency (King County - Metro Transit) is going to be trying out a few of the fast-charge Proterras with the first one set to arrive before the end of this year. Benefits of the quick-charge buses as I see them include:
a) Less weight - Heavy buses tear up the pavement not only on public streets, but also at the bus maintenance facilities. There's also implications for the maintenance shop needing to have the appropriate hoists for dealing with the heavier buses & batteries. Oh, and now that I think of it, safety might also be affected as weight relates to stopping distances, impact damage, etc.
b) Cheaper infrastructure - I'm guessing that it's easier to put in a couple dozen fast charge stations out and about (probably fed by different substations, if you want to talk about resiliency) than it is to put in a few hundred overnight charging stations at a maintenance base (a typical base around here has 200-300 buses). Come to think of it, this is probably a pretty big factor.
On the downside, there's the possibility of shorter battery life expectancy and the problem of a downed/damaged quick-charge station really messing up a bus route. This is where I really like the battery/electric trolleys which run on overhead wire most of the time but can go off-wire for some miles.

Admittedly, here in the northwest we don't have time-of-day based electrical rates, so the math might work out different in other areas...
There's a lot of factors that will go into the decision, and as with AE, the best AFV for a particular job tends to be situation-specific rather than a general option, at least until the tech is more mature.
 
Via ievs:
ABB Introduces Automated Fast Charger For Electric Buses
http://insideevs.com/abb-introduces-automated-fast-charger-for-electric-buses/

The new automated fast charging system uses a rooftop connection and can send up to 450 kW of DC power to the vehicle (150 kW and 300 kW versions also available). . . .

“ABB’s automated fast-charging solution is based on the ‘pantograph’ – a proven mechanical concept for linking power supplies to trains, trams and buses. When a bus arrives at the charging stop, wireless communication will be established between bus and charger and a special inverted pantograph will come down automatically. When all safety checks are performed, the system will provide the bus with a powerful fast recharge.” . . . .
 
Via ABG (pinch of salt not provided):
Brighsun launches electric bus in Australia, goes on 600-mile drive [w/video]
http://www.autoblog.com/2015/11/06/brighsun-launches-electric-bus-australia-600-mile/

Australia-based Brighsun is starting to promote its line of electric-bus prototypes, and says one of them can go from Sydney to Melbourne on a single charge, according to Australia's One Step Off The Grid. That's about 1,000 kilometers (621 miles), or about the same distance from the Motor City to the Big Apple. . . .
 
Via ievs:
CARB Assessment Shows BEVs Are Starting To Penetrate Medium And Heavy-Duty Truck/Bus Markets
http://insideevs.com/carb-assessment-shows-bevs-starting-penetrate-medium-heavy-duty-trackbus-markets/

The report is here:
DRAFT
TECHNOLOGY ASSESSMENT:
MEDIUM- AND HEAVY- DUTY BATTERY ELECTRIC
TRUCKS AND BUSES
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/tech/techreport/bev_tech_report.pdf
 
Via ABG (X-posted in the autonomous driving LEAF thread):
NAVYA will run autonomous ARMA electric buses on public roads
http://www.autoblog.com/2015/11/23/navya-autonomous-arma-electric-buses-public-roads/

Starting next spring, in Sion, Switzerland.
 
Via GCC:
Antelope Valley Transit orders up to 85 electric buses from BYD; first US all-electric public transit fleet
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2016/02/20160212-antelope.html

. . . Under the order from AVTA, BYD Motors will build and deliver a variety of all-electric bus models including a 40-foot low floor transit bus, a 60-foot low floor articulated bus, and a 45-foot commuter coach.

All 85 buses will have a range of more than 160 miles on a single battery charge. AVTA is also installing a wireless charging system to extend the fleet’s range to ensure the electric buses will be able to serve the agency’s longest rural routes.

. . . Over the lifetime of the new electric bus fleet, the transit agency forecasts it could save more than $46 million compared to an all-diesel bus fleet, equivalent to $46,000 per bus per year in savings. . . .

Same source:
NREL analysis of Proterra electric bus demo finds average fuel economy nearly 4x that of CNG baseline buses
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2016/02/20160212-proterra.html
 
Via ievs: http://insideevs.com/chicago-transit-authority-adding-electric-buses/

. . . In 2014, CTA added two New Flyer Xcelsior XE40 all-electric buses and it seems that they are willing to expand their electric fleet again. . . . According to the reports from Chicago, CTA got permission to switch an $8.1 million federal grant for 26 hybrid, articulated buses (60-foot) to 27 standard-sized electric buses (40-foot). . . .

“The CTA will use any new electric buses to “further inform in-service tests of the electric bus technology” and to help the agency decide the right mix of buses when it makes its next major procurement, a purchase of more than 1,000 buses in 2020, the CTA wrote in comments to the Chicago Metropolitan Agency for Planning. . . .
 
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