2016 Volt Rev 2

So, the rumor is that it'll have a bench seat in the back, about 50 miles of electric range with better MPG in CS mode and regular gas. If that thing has a bigger trunk as well, that's a slam dunk for me when my Leaf lease is up. It'll probably still have a slow-as-crap 3.3kw charger, and obviously no fast charging, but I'm not sure that matters much when you're towing a gas engine. How about you guys? I'm hoping it pressures Nissan to out it's plans for 2017. I don't think an 80-mile Leaf can compete at all with the new Volt if the rumors hold true.

Besides some of the stuff posted in the other Volt thread, there's http://articles.sae.org/13666/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

It'll be interesting to see the vehicle's capabilities and price when it comes out. I also fear you're right about the lame 3.3 kW OBC. They really should make a 6+ kW OBC available or even standard.

I sometimes start sessions for Volts and other 3.x kW OBC cars @ work and it's annoying to see how slowly they charge vs. my '13 Leaf SV, thus also occupying a spot much longer than a car w/higher wattage OBC for the same amount of charge added.

If it's still 3.3 kW, my opinion is that GM doesn't get it and doesn't get why faster L2 charging is helpful (e.g. occupying spots an infrastructure for less time, picking up charge more quickly when doing opportunity charging, higher charging efficiency, etc.)

Oh, you California guys with your public and workplace charging... that's not reality for most of us, if we can't do it with what we got at home overnight we're taking the other car, cuz folks round here never heard of them newfangled things.
This new volt sounds pretty sweet to those of us who pass as progressives in places where seeing the ICE switch on is a little sad, but still beats walking.
So for us it's a tossup whether GM still doesn't get it, or if they are the only ones who actually do.

Yeah. I would honestly never public charge if I had a Volt. Home and work. Who really cares if you burn a tiny bit of gas in the grand scheme of things?

LTLFTcomposite said:

Oh, you California guys with your public and workplace charging... that's not reality for most of us, if we can't do it with what we got at home overnight we're taking the other car, cuz folks round here never heard of them newfangled things.
...
So for us it's a tossup whether GM still doesn't get it, or if they are the only ones who actually do.

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Per http://www.greencarcongress.com/2013/03/cec-20130301.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; from 2013

California has accounted for about 40% of all purchases of plug-in electric vehicles nationwide during the past two years even though the state only constitutes 10% of the national vehicle market.

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http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/california-surpasses-100000-plug-in-car-sales-274473291.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; says something similar

Californians buy approximately 40 percent of all the PEVs sold in the U.S. According to data collected by the California Air Resources Board, new sales figures released this week from hybridcars.com and Baum & Associates, a Michigan-based market research firm, Californians bought 102,440 PEVs from December 2010 through August 2014.

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pkulak said:

Yeah. I would honestly never public charge if I had a Volt. Home and work. Who really cares if you burn a tiny bit of gas in the grand scheme of things?

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There are numerous Volts charging at http://api.plugshare.com/view/location/7989" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. I often see at least one there charging. I've used http://api.plugshare.com/view/location/54371" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; once (only has 2 EVSEs) and there was a Volt driver sitting in his car charging.

Yeah. I'd charge it if it was my first EV. The thrill has worn off though. Especially if I was comparing the speed to QCing my Leaf. If I bought a Volt, the new thrill would be continuing to drive after the battery was depleted, not sitting on the side of the road charging.

pkulak said:

How about you guys? I'm hoping it pressures Nissan to out it's plans for 2017.

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I'm glad they make the Volt but some of us (like myself) want all-electric drive and nothing else.

asimba2 said:

pkulak said:

How about you guys? I'm hoping it pressures Nissan to out it's plans for 2017.

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I'm glad they make the Volt but some of us (like myself) want all-electric drive and nothing else.

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+1

LTLFTcomposite said:

Oh, you California guys with your public and workplace charging... that's not reality for most of us, if we can't do it with what we got at home overnight we're taking the other car, cuz folks round here never heard of them newfangled things.

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FWIW, I do see some public charging in/around Boca Raton on Plugshare.

And it strikes me as a bit ironic as http://www.carcharging.com/about/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; is based in Florida.

asimba2 said:

I'm glad they make the Volt but some of us (like myself) want all-electric drive and nothing else.

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I have a big family and would appreciate an SUV. Hoping the Volt tech makes it into an SUV. Disappointingly, all-electric isn't an option for SUV right now.

DanCar said:

asimba2 said:

I'm glad they make the Volt but some of us (like myself) want all-electric drive and nothing else.

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I have a big family and would appreciate an SUV. Hoping the Volt tech makes it into an SUV. Disappointingly, all-electric isn't an option for SUV right now.

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http://priuschat.com/threads/gms-r-d-head-says-voltec-powertrain-not-suitable-for-vehicles-bigger-smaller-than-volt.79488/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As for all-electric SUV... yeah... there isn't really other than the Rav4 EV, for which supplies are almost gone, if not already gone.

I seem to remember someone in our EV group posting a quote from GM saying the next Volt will have *slightly* faster charging. Between 3.3 and 6.6, for some reason, but closer to the low end.

Saving up for it, hoping for 50 Mile range or more.


Fred

cwerdna said:

DanCar said:

As for all-electric SUV... yeah... there isn't really other than the Rav4 EV, for which supplies are almost gone, if not already gone.

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Or the soon to come out Model X.

cwerdna said:

FWIW, I do see some public charging in/around Boca Raton on Plugshare.

And it strikes me as a bit ironic as http://www.carcharging.com/about/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; is based in Florida.

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The only place our leaf ever strayed from monogamy was close enough that I could make it home without having to depend on it. Last time I was there 2 of the 3 stations were broken and the other had a Tesla suckling. Nobody cares around here, and there's no way I would want to be reliant on it.

LeftieBiker said:

I seem to remember someone in our EV group posting a quote from GM saying the next Volt will have *slightly* faster charging. Between 3.3 and 6.6, for some reason, but closer to the low end.

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3.6kW. Just to keep charge times the same as they are with the Gen 1 Volt.

Wennfred said:

Or the soon to come out Model X.

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Don't have spare $80K.

LeftieBiker said:

I seem to remember someone in our EV group posting a quote from GM saying the next Volt will have *slightly* faster charging. Between 3.3 and 6.6, for some reason, but closer to the low end.

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I assume all the 3.3 KW chargers are so common because of 20 amp breakers being so common.

from http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=13008" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; we have a post saying the Leaf chargers at 240v are

3.3 KW to battery and 3.8 KW from wall and
6.0 KW to battery and 6.6 KW from wall but they allow used on a 30a curcuit (only 91.7% derate)

following the 80% derate rule

20 a * .8 for continuous load = 16a usable for the EVSE. 16*240 = 3.8 KW charger input, something like 3.3 KW to the battery.

30 a * .8 for continuous load = 24a usable for the EVSE. 24*240 = 5.7 KW charger input, something like 5.2 KW to the battery.

40 a * .8 for continuous load = 32a usable for the EVSE. 32*240 = 7.7 KW charger input, something like 7.2 KW to the battery.

50 a * .8 for continuous load = 40a usable for the EVSE. 40*240 = 9.6 KW charger input, something like 9.1 KW to the battery.

Since the Leaf 3.3/3.8KW charger fits the 80% derating rule for a 20a breaker but the Leaf 6.0/6.6KW charger doesn't I'm assuming they are counting on 30a amp circuits to be wired better or the car is requesting less than the full charge rate after the EVSE or charger gets warm.

Also worth noting that Tesla calls their charger 10KW and allows it's use on a 50a circuit so they seem to be willing to push the 80% derated rule as well.

If we go by 83.3% derate above 20a like Tesla does we get

20 a * .8 for continuous load = 16a usable for the EVSE. 16*240 = 3.8 KW charger input, something like 3.3 KW to the battery.

30 a * .833 for continuous load = 25a usable for the EVSE. 25*240 = 6.0 KW charger input, something like 5.5 KW to the battery.

40 a * .833 for continuous load = 33.3a usable for the EVSE. 33.3*240 = 8.0 KW charger input, something like 7.5 KW to the battery.

50 a * .833 for continuous load = 41.7a usable for the EVSE. 40*240 = 10.0 KW charger input, something like 9.5 KW to the battery.



so after all that why pick a charger closer to the 20a limit than the 30a limit? Gotta be a cost/weight/size thing. Doesn't make sense to focus on the bottom of the barrel charge rate.

Or heaven forbid they keep the same charger they used to call 3.3KW and start calling it 3.8KW with no physical change.

pkulak said:

I'm hoping it pressures Nissan to out it's plans for 2017. I don't think an 80-mile Leaf can compete at all with the new Volt if the rumors hold true.

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The question is how will 50 mile range Volt compare with the 150 mile Leaf from 2017 - or for that matter 200 mile range EVs coming in 17/18.

A lot depends on four things:

A) What the price point of those EVs is...
B) How many 150 mile or more EVs actually MAKE it to market by 2017.
C) How many people are willing to give up some EV range to have unlimited range otherwise (Volt).
D) What that xxx mile EV range looks like 5 years or so down the road with battery degradation.

evnow said:

The question is how will 50 mile range Volt compare with the 150 mile Leaf from 2017 - or for that matter 200 mile range EVs coming in 17/18.

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