Interesting focus group pre-screen.

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mwalsh

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Leaf Supporting Member
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Last night I was called about participation in an electric vehicle focus group, and was asked a few very interesting pre-screen questions.

I was asked how I felt about a vehicle A, a "100 mile" car that was in the mid-30s* after incentives. "Well, very interested", I said. Then he asked how I would feel about a vehicle B, a "200 mile" car that was just "a few thousand dollars more"*

*I don't remember the exact figure...it was kinda late and I was very tired.

"EXTREMELY interested!", I replied.

Then he started asking me how I would feel about about the cost to add capacity to a 100 mile vehicle, in 25 mile increments up to 200 miles. I responded based on my understanding of current battery pricing per kWh that it would probably be ~$2500 per 25 miles. So $2500; $5000; $7500; and $10,000. "So, how", he said, "would you feel about $650 to add 25 miles; $1300 to add 50 miles; $1950 to add 75 miles; and $2600 to add 100 miles. Would you be interested in that?"

"OH, HELL YES!", I said.

Now these questions may have no basis in reality, and even if they do relate to some planned future vehicle, it may not see the light of day. It sort of depends on where they are in the development process. And even if this is a planned future vehicle, AND I get more details about it in a few weeks time, I won't be able to tell anyone anything about it, or who the manufacturer might be (which is something that's not readily obvious at some of these things). But I thought the questioning was interesting enough to mention it here. I mean, we all know that battery prices are going to get there at some point, and I suppose we should be happy that some manufacturers are planning for it now. Right?

I know which car I'd take - the 200 mile version! :mrgreen:
 
Interesting. Dovetails nicely with Nissan's recent survey that hinted they could add an extra 24 kWhs for under 5 grand.
 
pkulak said:
Interesting. Dovetails nicely with Nissan's recent survey that hinted they could add an extra 24 kWhs for under 5 grand.

That sorta popped into my mind. Except I haven't been to one of these with this particular market research company where it appeared Nissan/Infiniti might be the client.
 
pkulak said:
Interesting. Dovetails nicely with Nissan's recent survey that hinted they could add an extra 24 kWhs for under 5 grand.
Would be nice if they improved the performance in line with having twice the juice available. :)
I was informed that the e-nv200 would have increased range option when it is made available in the U.S. Can we get a 4-wheel drive option?
Now the big question is when? Hopefully late next year and not two years as most rumors suggest.
 
pkulak said:
Interesting. Dovetails nicely with Nissan's recent survey that hinted they could add an extra 24 kWhs for under 5 grand.
Where have they hinted that?
 
My notes show that they postulated:
Car 1- 4 to 5 hours to charge; cost $23.5k; 100 mile range.
Car 2- 8 to 9 hours to charge; cost $26k; 200 mile range.
For extra 25 mile range- $625
For extra 50 mile range- $1050
For extra 75 mile range- $1875
For extra 100 mile range- $2500

My impression was the extra range was being added to the 200 mile car.
 
I took a survey recently that implied, by the questions asked, that several manufacturers are coming out with BEVs and PHEVs that would interest many of us. Range was also mentioned, by only the car-I-think-was-a-Tesla was in the 200 mile range.
 
donald said:
pkulak said:
Interesting. Dovetails nicely with Nissan's recent survey that hinted they could add an extra 24 kWhs for under 5 grand.
Where have they hinted that?

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=15708" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
pkulak said:
donald said:
pkulak said:
Interesting. Dovetails nicely with Nissan's recent survey that hinted they could add an extra 24 kWhs for under 5 grand.
Where have they hinted that?
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=15708
I can't see that hints anything. Yes, of course they would be daft not to look at options for higher battery capacities, but there's nothing hinting at 'for under 5 grand'. All that is is to ask if customers are currently expecting the impossible.

An extra 100 mile range will translate to $10k for the battery alone. The chassis engineering costs required to accommodate a bigger battery pack could probably be largely mitigated at design stage of a new generation, but that won't be the next generation because surely they would've already started designing that?

I would not build any hopes on a survey that seeks to identify customers over-expectations.
 
mwalsh said:
"would you feel about $650 to add 25 miles; $1300 to add 50 miles; $1950 to add 75 miles; and $2600 to add 100 miles. Would you be interested in that?"


That sounds like iREX type pricing, for pseudo EV. (or effective price for PHEV battery, inclusive federal rebate)
which is a bit a waste, if a manufacturer puts a gas tank in a car, at least make it 'normal'
 
I was in a half day focus group last week from an unnamed manufacturer (that was not all that hard to figure out - no, it was not Nissan) that clearly felt that 200 miles of real world range was the sweet spot for the masses... They also had an extensive session on charging options... The screening process was very intensive - they clearly knew exactly what target demographic they wanted - but they did pay 500 bucks! It was a most-interesting session. And no, NDA does not let me say any more...
 
91040 said:
My notes show that they postulated:
Car 1- 4 to 5 hours to charge; cost $23.5k; 100 mile range.
Car 2- 8 to 9 hours to charge; cost $26k; 200 mile range.
For extra 25 mile range- $625
For extra 50 mile range- $1050
For extra 75 mile range- $1875
For extra 100 mile range- $2500

My impression was the extra range was being added to the 200 mile car.

Thanks for the real numbers. Like I said...I was dog tired when I got the call. I only started to come round when they started talking about an inexpensive 200 mile EV! :mrgreen:

I was so tired the guy didn't mention what the stipend was, and I didn't even think to ask. It would be AWESOME if it was $500, but these guys have never paid anything like that on the ones I've been to with them previously (in fact there always a little stingy compared to, say, Morepace).
 
I do focus groups on occasion and would have loved to have been a part of the one you just described. Even the rough numbers you threw out implied battery prices of around $100/kW. (Assuming a Leaf does somewhere around 4 miles/kW, an additional 25 miles of range would be about 6 kW, and they said about $650 for those 25 miles.) I would pay that in a heartbeat.

I think 200 miles of range is perfect for an EV. Any more than that and we would probably take our gas car, which gets 37mpg. I see diminishing returns (for MY driving patterns) in paying for more than 200 miles of range. But again, that's ME.
 
mwalsh said:
91040 said:
My notes show that they postulated:
Car 1- 4 to 5 hours to charge; cost $23.5k; 100 mile range.
Car 2- 8 to 9 hours to charge; cost $26k; 200 mile range.
For extra 25 mile range- $625
For extra 50 mile range- $1050
For extra 75 mile range- $1875
For extra 100 mile range- $2500

If 100 miles can be added for as little as $2,500 then I can't see any reason not to include that as standard equipment. Unless of course that is 100 extra miles over some already large number like 300 miles. But if you could add 100 miles to a Leaf for $2,500 I can assure you almost 99% of customers would chose the larger battery. You would have to get to around $4,000 to $5,000 before some people would start opting for the cheaper battery.
 
Research Design Specialists?
Got the call and mini survey in the mail today.. Not sure 3 hrs of interviews and an hour of driving is worth $125 but I like the implication that an extra 100 miles would only cost $2500..
All the questions like "how about an extra 25 miles for $625?" Or "50 more miles for $1250?"

Sounds like some major OEM is squeamish about all this hoopla over a $30k 200mi Tesla 3...

"But all of our research data shows people only drive 30-40 miles a day!" :)
 
Yeah, I got the letter today too.

$125 for three hours! They're getting cheaper and cheaper as time goes by! I'll still go though - I like being part of the process, and $125 will go a long way to paying for the pneumatic roofing nail gun I've been jonesing.
 
mwalsh said:
Yeah, I got the letter today too.

$125 for three hours! They're getting cheaper and cheaper as time goes by! I'll still go though - I like being part of the process, and $125 will go a long way to paying for the pneumatic roofing nail gun I've been jonesing.

Or you can drive your Leaf 5,500 miles on that money!
 
pkulak said:
That's the driving capital of the world.
...where they have significant experience of suffering severe range loss due to cold weather. :roll:
 
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