r1234567
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 21 Mar 2013
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Help me choose! Leaf vs Cmax Energi vs Volt and others..

Sun Jun 15, 2014 7:03 pm

I found a leaf online but I couldn't get anyone to verify they actually had that exact model (no vin online) nor could I get anyone to give me a price. I emailed the CFO as her name was on the website with a working email address. She emailed saying she would get me help with a purchase but never did. I emailed several dealers and M'Lady wouldn't respond and the one in DG was playing games like quoting me before destination.

Rosen was the opposite in that they responded to my email/phone calls and sent me pricing instantly and were so easy to work with.

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redLEAF
Posts: 1709
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:38 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Dec 2011
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Help me choose! Leaf vs Cmax Energi vs Volt and others..

Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:41 am

tangfj wrote:
r1234567 wrote:tangfj - There are very few QC in Chicagoland that you can actually use. Most of them were put in by a vendor who is now bankrupt and you can't get a card to actually use these stations.

I bought my Leaf at Rosen Nissan in Gurnee. There is another guy who posts here who was really happy at the Autobarn in Evanston but they were horrible to me so YMMV.
What was your experience if you don't mind sharing? I have been treated well so far there.
'tangfj' -- lots Chicago area Nissan dealer stories on this long running thread:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... start=1440

Our LEAF was bought at the end of 2011 (a new '12 SL model) from McGrath in Elgin; they have a very good LEAF tech but we were paying full MSRP back in those days as 'early adopter's' (we had one of the first 6 LEAF's delivered to them). As there are a number of Nissan dealer's carrying the LEAF around Chicagoland (but some have opted to NOT) it would be worth it to check to see who has any new inventory as they will service it as well.

Don't hold your breath on other 100% EV's just coming to market on being available in Chicago in the near future; I'm now waiting on the MBZ B-class electric drive but doubtful we'll see it until 2015 or later in the midwest. The thread above has lots of info on getting the lower cost 'EL' plates versus regular ones ($18/year versus $101) in IL; home install of L2 chargers; IL EV rebate for both the car and the charger install, etc. --- many here have had their LEAF's even longer than mine so take an afternoon and go through the thread, we're the trailblazers that have all been through it before that you can learn from ... still decent incentives to go 100% EV so take advantage while they still have them !
2018 smart ED Brabus (leased)
Sapphire Blue Metallic
2017 Tesla Model 3 LR RWD; EAP; 19" sport wheels
Red Multi-coat
2015 VW e-Golf LE (traded-in for Model 3)
2012 Nissan LEAF SL (traded-in at 5 yrs; 46K miles)
EVSE: 10/07/11 Schneider EVlink

IBELEAF
Posts: 1235
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:23 pm
Delivery Date: 06 Apr 2011
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Help me choose! Leaf vs Cmax Energi vs Volt and others..

Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:37 pm

Btw, if I would be shopping for EV, I would give Kia Soul EV a serious look. It should be out this fall and it looks very interesting option, plus it looks nicer then anything in this price range.
Currently: '12 Volt (12k) since 7/2012
Previously: '11 Leaf SL (w/ 12k miles & 16 month ownership)

TimLee
Posts: 2811
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:40 am
Delivery Date: 17 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2026
Location: Chattanooga, TN

Re: Help me choose! Leaf vs Cmax Energi vs Volt and others..

Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:32 pm

tangfj wrote:... 0% interest for 72 months ...
Automobiles have fairly quick value depreciation. Bit more so for a LEAF.
A six year loan will have you owing quite a bit more than the vehicle is worth for a big part of the six years.
Financially a bad idea unless you have a significant part of the loan in very secure money market and are just wanting to use the no interest loan so you can draw maybe 0.4 % interest on the cash.

Be sure you understand that with battery capacity degradation that in really cold weather if you want heat and depending on how you drive range in the last few years of the six years will only be 30 to 35 miles.

If buying be sure you have sufficient Federal tax liability to get the $7,500 credit which you don't get till next year. That and issues of battery capacity degradation and technology improvements (heat resistant battery chemistry, longer range?, etc.) is why more than 85% of LEAFs are leased instead of puchased.
But your projected miles per year are probably too low for leasing.

Low miles per year is problematic from a cost of ownership for the LEAF in general.
The battery capacity degrades with time whether you use it or not.
Probably much better total cost of ownership with 15,000 miles per year.

Tim Lee
Chattanooga, TN

Man. Date: 03/10/11, VIN # 2026
Delivered 05-17-2011
Blue Ocean, 2011 SL-eTec

tangfj
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:53 pm
Delivery Date: 21 Jun 2014
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Help me choose! Leaf vs Cmax Energi vs Volt and others..

Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:49 pm

TimLee wrote: If buying be sure you have sufficient Federal tax liability to get the $7,500 credit which you don't get till next year.
Can you explain this a bit? I have been operating under the assumption that if you buy an electric car, you get a $7,500 tax credit. I've read about others who say they haven't qualified but never really understood why? I thought the irs guidelines were pretty straight forward... Buy a qualifying electric car and get a $7,500 tax credit. Is there more to it than this???
2014 Gun Metallic Gray SL w/ Premium Package

pkulak
Posts: 758
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:08 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Sep 2013
Location: Portland, OR

Re: Help me choose! Leaf vs Cmax Energi vs Volt and others..

Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:19 pm

tangfj wrote:
TimLee wrote: If buying be sure you have sufficient Federal tax liability to get the $7,500 credit which you don't get till next year.
Can you explain this a bit? I have been operating under the assumption that if you buy an electric car, you get a $7,500 tax credit. I've read about others who say they haven't qualified but never really understood why? I thought the irs guidelines were pretty straight forward... Buy a qualifying electric car and get a $7,500 tax credit. Is there more to it than this???
It's reduces your liability; it's not a credit. So, you just need to owe more than $7,500.

TimLee
Posts: 2811
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:40 am
Delivery Date: 17 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2026
Location: Chattanooga, TN

Re: Help me choose! Leaf vs Cmax Energi vs Volt and others..

Wed Jun 18, 2014 3:25 am

pkulak wrote: It's reduces your liability; it's not a credit. So, you just need to owe more than $7,500.
Correct. If you buy in 2014 you have to have $7,500 or more in 2014 tax liability (after you have taken all other deductions, credits, etc.) Has to all happen in 2014, there is no carry over to future years like is possible with some losses and like some of the state tax credits allow.

Tim Lee
Chattanooga, TN

Man. Date: 03/10/11, VIN # 2026
Delivered 05-17-2011
Blue Ocean, 2011 SL-eTec

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14026
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Help me choose! Leaf vs Cmax Energi vs Volt and others..

Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:35 am

TimLee wrote:
pkulak wrote: It's reduces your liability; it's not a credit. So, you just need to owe more than $7,500.
Correct. If you buy in 2014 you have to have $7,500 or more in 2014 tax liability (after you have taken all other deductions, credits, etc.) Has to all happen in 2014, there is no carry over to future years like is possible with some losses and like some of the state tax credits allow.

in some cases (like mine) it would have saved you money by leasing to get the full $7500 discount (along with lower interest or "rent" rates) pay on the lease a while then do the buy out. that was my plan until I realized that the current LEAF was not a "buyable" car for me. that is why I am on my 2nd lease. we shall see what Dec 2016 has in store. from the looks of it, it will still be a LEAF. the only question is purchase/lease?
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tangfj
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:53 pm
Delivery Date: 21 Jun 2014
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Help me choose! Leaf vs Cmax Energi vs Volt and others..

Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:45 pm

Just got back from round 2 at the Nissan dealer... I got them down to the following...

Gray 2014 SL with premium package, splash guards, and floor mats
Car Price - $35,500 (invoice cost... MSRP was $37,240)
Trade-in -$17,000 (minus the balance on my loan of $10k, resulting in $7k equity value)
Bonus Cash - $3500

Tax credit - $7500 (for finance) $8650 (for lease)
Illinois Tax rebate - 10% of purchase price

I asked for a quote so I could compare finance vs lease and the guy either didn't know how to use the computer to do the quote or they did not have the ability to do it. I asked him about a "real" quote and he gave me reason why he couldn't do it that didn't make any sense to me. Anyway, he more or less wrote down some numbers on two separate pieces of paper for the comparison of finance vs buy... it was very hard to follow and by his calculations the cost for leasing with no money down came out to only about $30 cheaper than financing. Is this possible? I would have thought that leasing would have been much cheaper. Financing would have been about $385 per month vs lease at about $350 a month. The trade in would occur in both cases.

Is this right? and what do you think? I'm very close to pulling the trigger on either this car or a fully loaded C-Max Energi. I think both cars have their own pros and cons... right now I'm leaning more towards the leaf but the C-Max is intriguing.

One other thing I asked the dealer about which they did not know was the "No charge to charge" program that Nissan is going to start offering soon in select markets. Chicago isn't listed as one of the launch markets but I'd think that it'd be coming soon. Any recent Leaf buyers hear about whether or not it'd be given to people who bought within the last X number of days/months?

As a side note, the dealer already had some 2015's on the lot but unfortunately the $3500 cash back does not apply and the zero percent financing also does not apply... not that it matters much cause there does not seem to be much of a difference between the 2014 and 2015 anyway.

Thanks in advance!
2014 Gun Metallic Gray SL w/ Premium Package

TimLee
Posts: 2811
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:40 am
Delivery Date: 17 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2026
Location: Chattanooga, TN

Re: Help me choose! Leaf vs Cmax Energi vs Volt and others..

Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:46 am

The info you gave at the start of 200 miles every month and a half is only 1,600 miles per year :!: :shock:
As I said before, six year financing of vehicle purchases is a really bad idea.
All financial analysts will tell you that financing vehicles is the second most wealth destructive thing that Americans do. (Carry credit card debt is #1)
But financing car purchase of a vehicle to only drive 1,600 miles per year is phenomenally exhorbitant.
:o :shock: :!:

I purchased a 2011 LEAF 37 months ago for around $24,000 after credits and rebates, and depreciation of its value since then calculates to around $270 to $300 per month. Around 46 to 51 cents per mile for depreciation at my 7,000 miles per year. High but something I could live with.

Your depreciation will be more like $2.01 to $2.23 per mile :shock: :o :shock:
With a new one on the way the better thing to do is trade your vehicle in to Carmax using just the equity for a reasonable quality used vehicle that meets your new requirements.

I'll also repeat what I told Peace in another thread about purchasing a LEAF:
TimLee wrote:
Peace wrote:Hello everyone -

this is Peace here from MN, ... We fit the profile of owner versus leasee (buy vs own the Leaf had me stumped for a while as the lease deals seem so good right now doubled with the unknown factor regarding what happens to these generation leafs batteries 5-7 years from now) - we've always bought new cars and then drive them until the wheels fall off (and i hate having car payments forever).
...
You've received pretty complete and accurate response so far.
Your buy it and drive it till the wheels fall off has been a good cost effective vehicle ownership approach. Buying 2 to 3 year old coming off lease has been better but many are willing to pay for that brand new car experience.

But the LEAF is radically different.
The very expensive battery has rapid capacity degradation.
A three to four year old LEAF is nominally a 40 to 60 mile range vehicle, and a 30 to 35 mile range vehicle in really cold weather if you like heat. The SV and SL with heat pump is better down to around 5 to 10F.
Nissan has been and continues to be disingenuous.
A large % of LEAFs will be disposable at 60,000 to 80,000 miles, six to eight years.

Now I still love the 2011 LEAF that I own, and a lot more than the two vehicles I have owned in my life that I loved.
It will work well for me for another three to five years at 7,000 miles per year and a 36 mile round trip to downtown. Dealer there has DC quick charge.
Knowing what I know now though I don't think I can recommend purchasing one today.
With my low miles per year leasing would not have been cost effective then or now.
Purchasing did give me the marvelous electric driving experience and I do not regret it.
But I would not purchase today.
I would at least want the new more heat resistant battery and information from Nissan on some means and the cost of battery replacement.
If you still proceed between the two vehicle options you've outlined, I think the Ford may have a bit lower cost.
Also please study some of the good guides on buying a car such as on Edwards. NEVER tell a car salesman about a trade in. That should only be brought up after you have worked out a deal. And a dealer that can't or won't provide you printed comparisons detailing costs is unfortunately following the bad practices that 70% of them do. Find dealers that give you real printed cost #s.

Good luck.

Tim Lee
Chattanooga, TN

Man. Date: 03/10/11, VIN # 2026
Delivered 05-17-2011
Blue Ocean, 2011 SL-eTec

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