NEW Ford C-Max Solar Energi concept

Many people here asked for this. This is interesting "Ford's C-MAX Solar Energi Concept hybrid vehicle has a rooftop solar panel system that uses a Fresnel lens to concentrate sunlight onto the solar cells to boost the sunlight impact by a factor of eight" Eight times the "impact", but how uch more energy?

http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1320531" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvEhtqcbJ4U" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sorry, but that is simply FUD. You can't make something out of nothing and a Fresnel lens just focuses whatever is already there. At best, I'd expect maybe a 25% improvement... There is simply not enough surface area on a vehicle to produce any significant amount of energy. A 100% efficient PV at high noon in a good latitude could only produce about 1Kw per square meter...

Here's some math to go with it: http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2011/11/a-solar-powered-car/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

camasleaf said:

Many people here asked for this. This is interesting "Ford's C-MAX Solar Energi Concept hybrid vehicle has a rooftop solar panel system that uses a Fresnel lens to concentrate sunlight onto the solar cells to boost the sunlight impact by a factor of eight" Eight times the "impact", but how uch more energy?

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Look at the video, there is a canopy of lenses and the car is moving by itself under the canopy. That might work up to 8 times.

Hopefully would be better then a puny solar panel on Leaf.

TomT said:

There is simply not enough surface area on a vehicle to produce any significant amount of energy.

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That's true, but they aren't limiting themselves to the area of the car. They are using a free standing structure you park the car under. They also say the car is being moved by whatever surface it parked on so

1. you can't just park anywhere you have to park in a special solar concentrator spot
2. they have to spend some amount of energy moving the car under the concentrator
3. If you aren't parked in a concentrator spot but are still getting sun you get 1/8th the charging rate because you no longer have a concentrator overhead.

No free lunch and it seems it'd be harder to put these solar concentrator spaces in a parking lot than it would to just put in a Tesla style supercharger or even a J1772 charger.


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edit they are claiming a full day of charging will get 8kw and let the car drive 21 miles, If you don't sit under the special canopy you'll get 1kw and be able to drive about 2.5 miles a day on the solar energy the panels give under what I assume must be ideal conditions.

So they intend for this car to be a competitor to the Chevy Volt. Gas engine plus batteries, just with the addition of a few more solar cells. Not much of a game changer, just enough solar to say they put solar on it.

"Ford C-MAX Solar Energi Concept is estimated to have the same total range as a conventional C-MAX Energi of up to 620 miles, including up to 21 electric-only miles. ... Additionally, the vehicle still has a charge port, and can be charged by connecting to a charging station via cord and plug so that drivers retain the option to power up via the grid, if desired." from http://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2014/01/02/let-the-sun-in--ford-c-max-solar-energi-concept-goes-off-the-gri.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I suppose if they can add 3 solar panels to the roof cheap enough it'd be like free fuel for the life of the car. The question is how many years down the road will 3 panels like that on the roof be a nearly no cost item. If I get 500 miles a year of free driving from those panels and keep the car for 5 years and say that the free fuel is worth 5 cents a mile then the panels are almost worth paying $100 extra.

If they can somehow put a canopy with Fresnel lenses at my home and work so that I can always park under one then I guess it'd be worth more like $500 but I'm guessing the canopys with lenses will cost more than that to install even if the solar panels were less than $100.

camasleaf said:

Look at the video, there is a canopy of lenses and the car is moving by itself under the canopy. That might work up to 8 times.

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The car won't be moving itself, it'll be in Park with the car turned off. Something under the car has to be moving the car back and forth.

Either way it seems like it'd be an expensive cumbersome solution to have the car move under the lenses instead of just using fixed solar to supply power to the grid or a battery bank outside the car and then charge the car from that outside source.

A car setting in the sun in the summer can get over 140 deg f inside. Concentrate 8 times the sun on the car and you will have combustion.

pchilds said:

A car setting in the sun in the summer can get over 140 deg f inside.

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That can't be good for the battery pack, which in the Energi is basically in the passenger cabin.

If they wanted a really great concept, they should have gone with "Perfectly functioning electrical system." And maybe gull wing doors. ;-)

The part about parking the car under a magnifying glass sounds a little kooky, but the simple capability of 300 watts of trickle charging isn't uninteresting, particularly considering the option is to just cover the roof with a coat of paint. That's a few extra miles of driving per day; on a small battery PHEV like a plugin prius it could be significant increment to electric range.

Of course they haven't said how much it adds in cost to the vehicle. I bet if they put their minds to it it could be pretty cheap. Unfortunately the way things like this get priced is to make them a net wash to the consumer if he's lucky, so interest remains low.

Ford: "Let's see, if you park this at work in the sun 5 days a week, 8 hours a day, you might get 48kwh/month out of the thing. So five bucks a month over 10 years, let's make it a $799 option."

Consumer: "Screw it, I'll stick to coal"

pchilds said:

A car setting in the sun in the summer can get over 140 deg f inside. Concentrate 8 times the sun on the car and you will have combustion.

Click to expand...

I hope they will make a turkey cooker option standard.

LTLFTcomposite said:

The part about parking the car under a magnifying glass sounds a little kooky, but the simple capability of 300 watts of trickle charging isn't uninteresting, particularly considering the option is to just cover the roof with a coat of paint. That's a few extra miles of driving per day; on a small battery PHEV like a plugin prius it could be significant increment to electric range.

Of course they haven't said how much it adds in cost to the vehicle. I bet if they put their minds to it it could be pretty cheap. Unfortunately the way things like this get priced is to make them a net wash to the consumer if he's lucky, so interest remains low.

Ford: "Let's see, if you park this at work in the sun 5 days a week, 8 hours a day, you might get 48kwh/month out of the thing. So five bucks a month over 10 years, let's make it a $799 option."

Consumer: "Screw it, I'll stick to coal"

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So true, I need the option to save me money over the long haul (at least 25%) unless it is a creature comfort like heated seats (which might actually save me money as well).

I'd be happy if my Prius had 3 full size solar panels on it like that concept car does as it would be continually topping of the hybrid battery pack saving me gas. But again it'd only be worth it to me if the panels were very very cheap. I'm already getting 50-70 MPG on the prius so my cost per mile is low, any improvement has to compete with my already low cost per mile.

Same goes for the Leaf which at my electric rates would have a cost per mile half or less of the Prius.