Hybrids don't make financial sense

If you are TRULY trying to save money, hybrids don't make sense. You can buy base model cars from all carmakers that are only 14, 15, or 16 thousand in cost, and yet still get ~40mpg on the highway. No hybrid's fuel economy would make-up their ~10,000 dollar premium.

Nissan Versa (sedan or wagon) - 40 mpg
Mitsubishi Mirage (wagon) - 44 mpg (wow!)
Chevy Spark (wagon)
Ford Fiesta
and on and on and on. All of these cars range in price from $11,800 to ~14,000. You get near-hybrid economy without the huge 10 grand premium pricetag. Let's say I bought the Mirage instead of the Prius. That's $13,000 difference in price and for the prius to recover that cost, I would have to drive over 1 million miles!!! Nuts.

Another example:

It makes a LOT more sense to buy a Prius C (or insight) for $19,000 than a standard Prius for $25,000. You save $6000 dollars upfront, and you'd have to drive the standard prius close to 1 million miles to recapture that premium (over the C).

theaveng said:

If you are TRULY trying to save money, hybrids don't make sense. You can buy base model cars from all carmakers that are only 14, 15, or 16 thousand in cost, and yet still get ~40mpg on the highway.

No hybrid's fuel economy would make-up their ~10,000 dollar premium.

Click to expand...

Get a life man...

he is a paid oil industry troll.

theaveng said:

If you are TRULY trying to save money, hybrids don't make sense. You can buy base model cars from all carmakers that are only 14, 15, or 16 thousand in cost, and yet still get ~40mpg on the highway.

No hybrid's fuel economy would make-up their ~10,000 dollar premium.

Click to expand...

I will have to agree with you here. Money wise, if you are looking for the cheapest operating cost, a hybrid is not it, but an EV is.

No ICE can now, or ever will be able to compete with a pure EV, because of the efficiency differences.

It works best when due to federal and state tax credits, you can drive a Leaf SL for 16k afer tax credits. At that price - why bother with a non EV car!

theaveng: do you think twitter is a good IPO to get into ? I am not fascinated by internet IPOs anymore. You agree ?

If you want to save money buy a used bicycle :|

If you are TRULY trying to save money, you can find a rock and a stick, fashion a spear, kill a wild horse or hog, skin it, tan the hide, craft yourself a pair of shoes, and walk.

I would venture to say that while cost definitely factors into the decision, 90% percent plus of the members here own a Leaf for reasons other than spending the absolute least amount of money possible on transportation.

My friend bought a Prius C. he said he gets 50 MPG, and it wasn't all that expensive.

theaveng said:

If you are TRULY trying to save money, hybrids don't make sense. You can buy base model cars from all carmakers that are only 14, 15, or 16 thousand in cost, and yet still get ~40mpg on the highway.

No hybrid's fuel economy would make-up their ~10,000 dollar premium.

Click to expand...

trololololol

theaveng said:

If you are TRULY trying to save money, hybrids don't make sense. You can buy base model cars from all carmakers that are only 14, 15, or 16 thousand in cost, and yet still get ~40mpg on the highway.

No hybrid's fuel economy would make-up their ~10,000 dollar premium.

Click to expand...

And know you're just a troll, but...

That premium has to be amortized over the life of the car, not just your ownership of it. So (using combined mileage, not your highway-only bogus number and $3.60 for gas):

((x / 30mpg) * $3.60) - ((x / 50mpg) * $3.60) = $10000
x = 208,333

as long as the car drives over 208,333 miles before losing all value, a $10,000 premium is worth it. If gas hits $4/gallon it's only 187,500 miles. At $5/gallon it only has to make it 150,000 miles.

^ You left out the time value of money. The $10,000 has to be paid up front so you also have to factor in the lost opportunity. So instead of a Prius if you buy a Yaris and 10,000 dollars worth of Tesla stock in 5 years you'll have enough to buy a model S. Maybe not with the phat rims though.

30mpg? These base econo cars get 38-45 mpg. If I redo your calculation I come-up with over 1 million miles I would have to drive a Prius to match the $13,000 savings of a Mitsubishi Mirage.

qwk said:

I will have to agree with you here. Money wise, if you are looking for the cheapest operating cost, a hybrid is not it, but an EV is.

Click to expand...

Not hardly. $28,000 for the cheapest EV (Leaf) will have fuel savings, but that will never be as cheap as buying a $12,000 Nissan Versa (or $13,000 Spark, Mirage). $28k + electricity >>> $12k + gasoline
.

everybody is comparing hybrids with the cheapest ICE cars out there. A Yaris is nowhere as nice as a Prius. If you want to compare apples to apples compare it to a Corolla with all the options and your numbers will change

cause he is a troll troll troll troll troll.
fake name, fake purchase date, fake empathy.
paid troll.

He is probably not even paid. Every hybrid I have owned was much cheaper to own then the crap fest of choices he has given us. Try selling any of those even a year later for half the purchase price. (Sorry that the leaf is the same way I own one too.)

Elephanthead said:

He is probably not even paid. Every hybrid I have owned was much cheaper to own then the crap fest of choices he has given us. Try selling any of those even a year later for half the purchase price. (Sorry that the leaf is the same way I own one too.)

Click to expand...

Well not being a troll and owning two electric cars I do have to say the non-troll argument is correct. The cost of ownership is lower for non electric cars if you compare apples to apples. For example if you look at Ford Focus loaded at $21K right now, while the EV version is $36K. Even if you take the $8500 typical credit (Federal + State) there is still a $6,500 difference and add in a L2 charger and you are up to $7K difference.

With a typical 6-7 cents a mile saving (10 cents/gallon gas vs 3-4 cents for electric) it would take 100,000 miles to break even. This doesn't compensate for the battery life lost/replacement cost in 100K (yes, I know there are actual other repairs, trying to keep this simple).

So honestly electric cars aren't really just a conversation about savings. But there are so many other reasons to get one. The lack of emissions, the sheer convenience of not having to get gas, the generally nicer driver, the quiet. And the fun factor of driving the future of cars.

I'd have to say someone who's only concern is minimal dollars for transportation really shouldn't be looking at EVs just yet.

I'm reminded of a post that I read once that said if it was all about lowest long-term cost, we'd all be driving used 8 year old Civics. Nothing against Civics myself (we owned one for almost 20 years), but thank heavens there's a bit of variety out there and some people who are willing to buy new cars.

epirali said:

Elephanthead said:

He is probably not even paid. Every hybrid I have owned was much cheaper to own then the crap fest of choices he has given us. Try selling any of those even a year later for half the purchase price. (Sorry that the leaf is the same way I own one too.)

Click to expand...

Well not being a troll and owning two electric cars I do have to say the non-troll argument is correct.

Click to expand...

yes, but are you launching a post about it on an EV website, and also too post (ahem, BS) phoney credentials about who you are?
that is the point.
he is a troll.

thankyouOB said:

epirali said:

Elephanthead said:

He is probably not even paid. Every hybrid I have owned was much cheaper to own then the crap fest of choices he has given us. Try selling any of those even a year later for half the purchase price. (Sorry that the leaf is the same way I own one too.)

Click to expand...

Well not being a troll and owning two electric cars I do have to say the non-troll argument is correct.

Click to expand...

yes, but are you launching a post about it on an EV website, and also too post (ahem, BS) phoney credentials about who you are?
that is the point.
he is a troll.

Click to expand...

Sorry I am confused, does calling another person a troll invalidate the conversation and the points I am making? Why can't we honestly discuss the pros (many) and cons (few) of EVs?