My letter to Tesla regarding their Superchargers

I just mailed a letter to Tesla today via snail mail:

P.O. Box 190536
Dallas, TX 75219


October 28, 2013


Tesla Headquarters
3500 Deer Creek
Palo Alto, CA 94304


Dear Tesla Supercharger Team,


I am writing to you about a very important issue which needs to be addressed sooner rather than later: charging compatibility.

While some BEV enthusiasts may find the task of finding a suitable charging location “adventurous,” the rest of the driving public is far from being “won over” by the BEV movement. Because of the complexities involved with charging and the fears of “being stranded” buying an EV is appealing as it should be. To the average American, there are many variables to consider, the most important of which is finding a place to charge their vehicle when they need to.

There’s no doubt that Tesla is the BEV industry leader and that the Model S is the flagship BEV car; however, when companies are industry leaders it becomes very easy to “innovate themselves onto an island.” Quite simply, industry leaders resort to proprietary technology because “they can.”

While innovation is valued in America, developing proprietary products that are incompatible with competing products will hurt the industry overall by creating confusion and loss of confidence in a product. As we have learned from many successful companies in the past, different doesn’t necessarily mean “better,” especially in the long run.

Rather than trying to maintain a non-conformist approach to electric vehicles, you should strive to make your products as versatile as possible. This will elevate Tesla’s already prestigious status as an industry leader and innovator, and instill confidence in the BEV movement as a whole. If you were able to make your Superchargers CHAdeMO and SAE Combo compatible, think about the brand visibility it would provide to those who are already BEV owners: “Today I drive a Leaf, but tomorrow I will drive a Tesla!” For those who aren’t currently BEV owners, think about the visual appeal and consumer confidence a slew of BEVs sitting under a huge “Tesla” banner provides when compared to passing by a charging station is that rarely used and desolate. By contributing to the success of out the electric car movement as a whole, you are ensuring the future success of Tesla.

Sincerely,



Valentin Lorien

USSValor said:

Rather than trying to maintain a non-conformist approach to electric vehicles, you should strive to make your products as versatile as possible. This elevate Tesla’s already prestige status as an industry leader and innovator, and instill confidence in the BEV movement as a whole.

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Which is why the Tesla cars can use Superchargers, J1772-2009, Mennekes, HPWC (Tesla), CHAdeMO, and perhaps someday Frankenplug (if these ever become ubiquitous).

I'd say that Tesla's status in the EV community is well elevated!! Did you send the same letter to GM to get on their Frankenplug network? :lol:

So, the question is, "why doesn't your EV brand become part of the Supercharger network?" Tesla is doing just fine, and they have held out their network for other manufacturers to adopt.

I'll give you a hint, however; none of the "compliance-only" vehicle manufacturers, like Toyota, Honda, GM, VW, et al... actually everybody except Tesla, Mitsubishi, and Nissan so far, will want EVs to become very popular.

TonyWilliams said:

actually everybody except Tesla, Mitsubishi, and Nissan so far, will want EVs to become very popular.

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That's one of the points of my letter. I wrote to Tesla because I know that they truly car about electric cars. They're the only company that is fully vested in electric cars, yet they use a standard that no one else uses. Just because they're successful now doesn't mean that they will be in the future. They are backlogged with orders right now because the demand is higher than the supply but once everyone who wants a Tesla gets one, where will the future demand come from?

USSValor said:

... They are backlogged with orders right now because the demand is higher than the supply but once everyone who wants a Tesla gets one, where will the future demand come from?

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I wouldn't worry so much about Tesla... they are in good hands. Tesla has numerous cars in the pipeline for the future, including Model X (2015), Model E (2017), Model E-SUV (2018), fourth generation smaller / cheaper car, etc.

If you're worried about Nissan, then I would write a letter to them to pay the licensing fees to become part of the Supercharger network.

USSValor said:

TonyWilliams said:

actually everybody except Tesla, Mitsubishi, and Nissan so far, will want EVs to become very popular.

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That's one of the points of my letter. I wrote to Tesla because I know that they truly car about electric cars. They're the only company that is fully vested in electric cars, yet they use a standard that no one else uses. Just because they're successful now doesn't mean that they will be in the future. They are backlogged with orders right now because the demand is higher than the supply but once everyone who wants a Tesla gets one, where will the future demand come from?

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If everyone that wanted a Tesla had one there would be more Tesla cars on the road than any other brand and Tesla wouldn't have to worry about demand since they would be 10 times larger than any other auto manufacturer.

Now if you add a condition that addresses price/affordability you might have to address future demand but ignoring price the Tesla Model S is the safest car on the road and very cheap in cost per mile to operate and presumably just as reliable as any other EV. I don't know a single person that wouldn't drive one if you sold a new one to them for $10,000.

I know I want one, that doesn't mean I have the money to get one.

I see USSValor's point. Funding the installation of a number of ChargePoint L2 stations or similar in locations that are suitable would do the following:

• Encourage non-Tesla owners to hang out with Tesla owners - and dream of one day owning a premium vehicle with free, fast Supercharging.
• Provide backup charging should all Supercharger locations be filled up (this happens often in busy locations like Gilroy).
• Get more EVs on the road which only further helps Tesla's goal.
• Keeps Roadster owners (some of their most loyal customers) from feeling out.

They'd probably want 70-80A capable J1772 stations - I think that only leaves Clipper Creek as a possible vendor. At least 40A capable would be best for the Tesla owner who happens to use it.

USSValor said:

I just mailed a letter to Tesla today via snail mail:
<snip>

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+1.

It would be very useful if the supercharger stations had either an SC-CHAdeMO adapter available, or a couple of CHAdeMO DC units installed.

In the San Antonio-Austin area and connecting I35 corridor there is only one DC fast charge option - the Superchargers installed on I35 in San Marcos. They are completely useless unless one has a Tesla.

I think the letter needs to go to Nissan to subscribe to the Tesla network.
Good luck.

Tesla is providing a solution for their customers by A) building a vehicle that doesn't have to panhandle its way around town looking for hitching posts at places people really have no interest in providing them and B) getting out there and building the infrastructure themselves for longer distance travel instead of waiting around in hopes other dysfunctional organizations will take up the slack.

Now if another manufacturer wants to license the UMC standard and come up with a business proposal to make their cars interoperate on the supercharger network I suspect Tesla would be interested... but not for free.

USSValor said:

I just mailed a letter to Tesla today via snail mail:...

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I think all EV builders should allow the cable that comes with the car to simply plug into a standard 30 or 40 Amp outlet.

I think the other manufacturers should also pay the license fees to use Tesla's 120 (135) kW charging system, pay to make their own, or work with the organizations that defined the current charging infrastructure to improve them to the point of matching Tesla's.

I think the letter will fall on deaf ears, but applaud that you sent it. I do blame Tesla for not embracing a standard for superchargers. I know they have their reasons, but I personally find them self-serving and maybe a little short sighted. Tesla may be the best of the bunch right now, but I'm convinced that they cannot, by themselves, establish electric cars as mainstream replacement for ICE cars. By creating yet another proprietary standard, they are not helping. The standards process is hard enough.

That said, Tesla has every right to go their own way...Apple, Sony, and a host of others have decided that creating their own standards is the way to go...sometimes successfully, sometimes not. Only time will tell whether Tesla will end up setting the standard, changing to follow it, or help kill any hope of one emerging.

AndyH said:

It would be very useful if the supercharger stations had either an SC-CHAdeMO adapter available, or a couple of CHAdeMO DC units installed.

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You do know that there's no current method to collect ad hoc useage payments at Supercharger sites, correct?

With that in mind, who do you suggest pays for the CHAdeMO equipment to add at Supercharger sites so that you can get free transportation energy?

This whole debate reminds me of the guy who claimed he wouldn't pay for CHAdeMO service, and since a local CHAdeMO charger wasn't getting used much (according to this freeloader), it should be made free to everybody.

davewill said:

I think the letter will fall on deaf ears, but applaud that you sent it. I do blame Tesla for not embracing a standard for superchargers.

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They did embrace a standard while the folks at GM/SAE were still scratching their posteriors. Speaking of standards, we need Frankenplug like a hole in the head, and I'm reasonably confident it will be continued to be only embraced by "compliance-only" companies (hence, utter failure). Heck, some of the Frankenplug Cast Members do not, or will not, provide any fast charging at all, like Mercedes on their upcoming B-Class ED compliance car.

I'll tell you what; you get every GM, Nissan, BMW, et al, dealer to install a Tesla 120kW Supercharger and I'll concede that Tesla should install a CHAdeMO or Frankenplug station at their sites.

TonyWilliams said:

They did embrace a standard while the folks at GM/SAE were still scratching their posteriors. Speaking of standards, we need Frankenplug like a hole in the head, and I'm reasonably confident it will be continued to be only embraced by "compliance-only" companies (hence, utter failure). Heck, some of the Frankenplug Cast Members do not, or will not, provide any fast charging at all, like Mercedes on their upcoming B-Class ED compliance car.

I'll tell you what; you get every GM, Nissan, BMW, et al, dealer to install a Tesla 120kW Supercharger and I'll concede that Tesla should install a CHAdeMO or Frankenplug station at their sites.

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Luckily I don't need you to concede anything at all. Tesla didn't embrace a standard, they created their own...and a closed one at that. Speaking of standards, we need one standard. Not two, and certainly not three. I couldn't really care less who wins, so long as we end up with a robust QC network.

Anyway, I don't particularly think Tesla should install the other plugs at this point. The crime was going their own way, and the damage is done at this point. As I said, they had their reasons. I just hope it doesn't keep DCQC from reaching critical mass.

davewill said:

Speaking of standards, we need one standard. Not two, and certainly not three. I couldn't really care less who wins, so long as we end up with a robust QC network.

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If we can only have one standard, then I vote for a Supercharger standard!!! Gee, that was easy. Now, Tesla doesn't have to add anything.

The way Tesla is turning out vehicles there will hardly be room for their own vehicles let alone all other manufacturers.

Nothing is stopping Nissan doing the same with chademo or the SAE-GM consortium doing same with their standard.

TonyWilliams said:

If we can only have one standard, then I vote for a Supercharger standard!!! Gee, that was easy. Now, Tesla doesn't have to add anything.

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Shame your vote doesn't mean bupkis. I can't figure out why YOU are so Tesla gung ho. You didn't even see fit buy one. Tell you what. Just give me a call when Elon publishes detailed specs and licenses the Supercharger standard to all comers for a published fee.

It's obvious that Tesla wants no one else in their sandbox, and like Apple owners, Tesla owners like having their own little playground. I hope it works, but I'm not optimistic.

Looks to me like Tesla UMC is the technically superior standard. It's a single plug solution for both DC and AC that doesn't look like it was designed by a beginner. How do we know Tesla won't let anybody else use that standard? Have any other manufacturers asked them?

davewill said:

TonyWilliams said:

If we can only have one standard, then I vote for a Supercharger standard!!! Gee, that was easy. Now, Tesla doesn't have to add anything.

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Shame your vote doesn't mean bupkis. I can't figure out why YOU are so Tesla gung ho. You didn't even see fit buy one. Tell you what. Just give me a call when Elon publishes detailed specs and licenses the Supercharger standard to all comers for a published fee.

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Tesla is, frankly, the only logical "real car" game in town. That doesn't mean that Nissan or some surprise company can't step it up, but right now it appears they are all content with largely 100-ish mile range cars with no fluid nationwide integrated charging infrastructure plan. Tesla does. In addition, maneuvering the Tesla Supercharger plug is a whole lot easier than either of the two clunky competitors.

So, to answer your question on "detailed specs", just dig up the specifications for SAE DC charging. The Tesla Supercharger is 100% compatible with that standard. As to licensing, that offer has been on the table for some time. Again, if you guys think that's important, I'd write Nissan, etc, to pony up the licensing fee.

LTLFTcomposite said:

Looks to me like Tesla UMC is the technically superior standard. It's a single plug solution for both DC and AC that doesn't look like it was designed by a beginner. How do we know Tesla won't let anybody else use that standard? Have any other manufacturers asked them?

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Much the opposite. Tesla has stated they are willing to license the superchargers to any other manufacturer.

I would agree with davewill if it weren't for the fact that the Tesla Supercharger setup is better than the alternatives.