danrjones
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Re: GCR: VW ID 3 bows at Frankfurt

Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:48 am

Leaf15 wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:53 pm
Finally, it looks like EV revolution is about to get started. This is the first true affordable mass production EV on the market with ICE competitive specs. Would be interesting to see US version of ID.4 (cross). VW was able to negotiate battery prices below $100/kWh - this is critical threshold that allows affordable EV to become a reality. This imply very high volume, meaning they would build/sell as many EV as they can to keep battery prices down, so US is going to get those affordable EV variants soon as well, possibly ID.4 would be early next year.
what is their plan to keep up with demand?

Isn't part of their problem with Kia and Hyundai they just can't get enough batteries?
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

GRA
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Re: GCR: VW ID 3 bows at Frankfurt

Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:31 pm

jlv wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:24 am
GRA wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:49 pm
with DC up to 125 kW (gee, do you suppose that number had anything to do with EA's pricing tiers?)
Since it is not coming to the US, I don't know why they would have considered EA's pricing tiers.

For the simple reason that the equipment to be used in many if not all of the other cars on the same platform, which will come here, will be the same. Mass production at the lowest price means you use as much of the same equipment on as many models as you can, which also minimizes the development costs.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

Leaf15
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Re: GCR: VW ID 3 bows at Frankfurt

Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:40 pm

danrjones wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:48 am
what is their plan to keep up with demand?

Isn't part of their problem with Kia and Hyundai they just can't get enough batteries?
They have contracts with about 5 biggest EV batteries producers and also went 50/50 with Northvolt new $1B factory in Germany will get online in 23/24 at 16 GWh annually. Hyundai is not very big player and only gets battery from 1 source - LG, but Hyundai already went from #15 to #5 EV manufacturer raring in 1 year after Kona/Niro start.
Leaf 2015 SV CPO traded for 2019 Hyundai Ioniq EV Limited

goldbrick
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Re: GCR: VW ID 3 bows at Frankfurt

Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:09 pm

GRA wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:31 pm
Mass production at the lowest price means you use as much of the same equipment on as many models as you can, which also minimizes the development costs.
VW is famous for this and it has both benefits and drawbacks. The benefits are the obvious economy of scale and inter-changeability of parts. The draw backs are the inter-changed parts don't always have the mounting bolts, etc in the optimal place. It often occurs that working on a VW would be soooo much easier if the bolts were oriented in a different direction, etc. But when you realize the part is used on 4 different engines in 5 different car types it is understandable why things are built the way they are.

Hopefully with EV's it will be less cumbersome.

GRA
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Re: GCR: VW ID 3 bows at Frankfurt

Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:27 pm

goldbrick wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:55 pm
It will be interesting to see how much traction this gets. To me, it feels like the first time an established car manufacturer is really getting behind EV's and it could be a game changer. If nothing else, having VW bet the farm on EV's should help support the industry in general and make the EV universe more legitimate in the eyes of many.

Agreed. Nissan threw away the first mover advantage they had. Depending on price and size, the biggest battery version of the ID.4 could (marginally) meet my requirements for in-state trips for a few years, and might be worth leasing. A true multi-state road trip vehicle will need 100+ kWh usable plus 250+kW charging, but I suspect we're still at least five years away from having one with those specs at a mass market price.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

danrjones
Posts: 274
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Re: GCR: VW ID 3 bows at Frankfurt

Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:05 am

For me a true ice replacement would need about 500 miles of range. Because 80% gives you 400, add in mountains and freeway speeds, and the fact most will not be comfortable taking it down to 5%. So 20 to 80% with freeway speeds and mountains must give me a range of around 250 to 275 miles. I do not want to stop more than that on a road trip. And I agree 250+ charging speeds. The good news is if the battery is large enough that 80 or even 70% is your 100%, you charge a lot faster.

And affordable.
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

GRA
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: GCR: VW ID 3 bows at Frankfurt

Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:01 pm

danrjones wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:05 am
For me a true ice replacement would need about 500 miles of range. Because 80% gives you 400, add in mountains and freeway speeds, and the fact most will not be comfortable taking it down to 5%. So 20 to 80% with freeway speeds and mountains must give me a range of around 250 to 275 miles. I do not want to stop more than that on a road trip. And I agree 250+ charging speeds. The good news is if the battery is large enough that 80 or even 70% is your 100%, you charge a lot faster.

And affordable.

Seems like we're in more or less complete agreement on what's needed for full ICE replacement. I'd even say 600 miles wouldn't be amiss, to allow for degradation and HVAC use. For full replacement I want at least four hours at 75 mph (80 mph preferred) plus at least a 30 mile reserve at the same speed with all the allowances as above, for at least 12 and preferably 15 or better yet 20 years. As a battery with that kind of longevity seems unlikely, I'm a big believer in battery leasing to keep the overall size/weight down. Let the leasing company worry about degradation.

If anyone comes up with a battery that will allow the full capacity (minus reserve) to be routinely used without hastening degradation, and which will last the car's lifetime, the total range can be reduced accordingly. And range can be traded off against charging speed to some extent, but as charging speeds that would replicate liquid/gaseous fuel energy replenishment times (<=5 min. to provide above range, which would require at least 1,200 kW) aren't likely anytime soon if ever, range is more critical. I don't mind stopping for 30-40 minutes every four hours or more as I can combine that with eating, but I'm not going to want to do that every two hours (or less) as is currently the case under those conditions. At least, it is in a BEV at an affordable price.
Last edited by GRA on Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 10724
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: GCR: VW ID 3 bows at Frankfurt

Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:29 pm

IEVS:
VW Wants MEB Platform To Set Electric Standard: Become Beetle Famous
https://insideevs.com/news/370316/vw-tu ... ic-beetle/


Talks about how the Beetle platform was used by many other vehicles (dune buggies etc.), not just those from VW, and how VW is looking to do the same with the MEB.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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